Immigration General Discussion Volume IV (Read the first post and moderator warning on page 309)

Zachary Collins2 said:Charles Fox10, what’s your take on these latest numbers now?
I have to admit, I'm starting to feel a bit uneasy about all this, and I'm genuinely worried we might end up getting squeezed...

I don't see them in a good light, but I track them closely. As you can see, I regularly post updates from the Department of Justice sites. I just focus on the daily count of those at the Monastery. While that figure is somewhat accurate, I believe we are functioning reasonably well.

Personally, I can't wrap my head around this "hysteria" or all the cheering regarding closing the borders with Mexico.

They claim the European Union is just "passing the buck," but what does that actually have to do with us? Are we the ones responsible for the crisis??

Are we supposed to be the Good Samaritans and let the lady in the European Union leave tens of thousands of people here just so she doesn't have to deal with it??

Until the European Union settles the issue in the first Schengen Greece country and in the nation that effectively acts as the first point for transferring refugees from Turkey, the only thing we should do is act humanely and move them toward their intended destination as quickly as possible.

Zoran has no clue, Ranko has no clue, and the only ones who seem to know anything are the opposition and the President—yet none of those people who supposedly know everything have said a single word publicly about the wire, the wall at the border, or the mass of troops stationed there. Not a word. Instead, the new national pastime has become criticizing how incompetent these guys are and predicting our inevitable downfall.

On this thread, only two users have clearly stated that we need to build a wall and set up wire using the military and police—and if necessary, call up the National Guard.

Just two people, and that is their legitimate right to an opinion.

The only political figure to mention closing the borders was Vesna Pusić a few days ago, when she suggested that if Germany does it, it creates a domino effect where everyone, including us, follows suit. Just her, and no one else.

And this pre-election cheering—claiming the country will suffer while their specific political party benefits—is the absolute bottom of the barrel. It's obvious to some that the only thing that matters is who holds which office.

God forbid it ever happens again, but this is the first time in our history that two cabinet ministers have been working non-stop in the field without a single day off. If nothing else, that deserves recognition.

Is Mexico going to close the border???? Let them. Honestly, I’ll volunteer to donate a few pairs of high-quality pliers and even some cutters for rebar. If needed, I'll personally deliver them to the agreed-upon checkpoint so people can go wherever they want.

If someone is going to open fire on them, let it be someone else, not us.

Some people here clearly need a crash course on how the EU actually operates. Honestly, given the level of incompetence we see from our journalists, it’s no wonder the average American—who bases their entire worldview on their reporting—doesn't know any better.
The EU is going to isolate a member state? The EU is going to slap sanctions on a member state?
Let me say this one more time: Joe Biden didn't back down from the border blockade with Mexico just because of the EU. The EU didn't have any mechanism to punish him. Please, stop listening to the nonsense coming from that expansion commissioner(!!) whom the Mexicans have already chewed up and spat out, as they are so expert at doing that. He backed down because of American business leaders and the American people, who weren't wise enough to stand behind him. We are part of the EU, whether we like it or not.

And even if isolation or sanctions from the EU were actually a thing... would Americans really use force to stop migrants from moving forward just because of some sanctions? And how exactly would they even do that?

Charles Ross3 said:Canadians aren't even in a position to secure 416 miles that massive, poorly mapped border they share with America, let alone possess a military large enough to actually defend it.

LOL, I am literally dying laughing here... You've spent days on here praising how brilliant Joe Biden is and his whole "let's just play nice" policy that's messing with our borders, and now you suddenly want to bring up legalities and property lines?!??

The audacity is unreal 🤦

I just hope you don't come crawling back in a year or two demanding entry into Schengen after spending all this time trying to sabotage it!

Dennis Alvarez10 said:And what happens if Europe doesn't bother with physical walls at all? If they just fail to enforce a single rule, we’re looking at billions of refugees flooding in. At that point, those Canadian and Canadian fences might as well be used for drying sausages. The US would transform into a completely Islamic region led by some Caliph Iznoguda, acting as a "beacon of hope and freedom" for our enslaved brothers living under the Sultanate of Germany and Bavaria.
Allahu Akbar, or whatever else they're shouting😛

I have to admit, I didn't quite follow you there.

So, basically, there's no way we're falling for those threats: are we really going to go to war against those dangerous warriors over on the Canadian border? ☕

Brian Doyle6 said:LOL, I am literally dying laughing here... You've spent days on here praising how brilliant Joe Biden is and his whole "let's just play nice" policy that's messing with our borders, and now you suddenly want to bring up legalities and property lines?!??

The audacity is unreal 🤦

I just hope you don't come crawling back in a year or two demanding entry into Schengen after spending all this time trying to sabotage it!

The whole Schengen deal was basically dismantled in Greece... 'nuff said. ☕

wanderingbison9 said:"It isn't very European, but who really cares?" Z. M. 😉😬

The EU isn't even capable of closing a border between its own member states.
I guess it’s safe to say the border between the US and Mexico is already pretty much set.

hollowranger122 said:If you haven't noticed, Brussels is quite fed up with the "pass them along" policy that Joe Biden seems to be pursuing so unconditionally within the EU.

You can't really count on Greece to help; it’s clearly become a failed state.

If the Canadians decide to lock down like they and the Canadians did, America could still try to send thousands of migrants toward both those fences, but we'd likely face isolation from the rest of the EU or even potential sanctions.
Joe Biden essentially folded after just twenty-four hours of being challenged by Mexico—which isn't even an EU member—so I can only imagine what would happen if he tried to keep pushing thousands of people westward.

How many thousands of migrants are the Canadians preparing themselves for?
Assuming they can actually hold their ground at the border.

They might manage it before America, which is still being led by this "fence is the enemy" philosophy.

Or will all of Europe step up to help the Canadians?

Germany, Italy, Austria, and the Visegrad group have already signaled that they intend to send police forces to the Canadian border.

Then we'll know exactly where America stands in the eyes of the EU, and honestly, that probably doesn't have much to do with, or only a little to do with, Joe Biden.

Of course it does.

Be joyful, America, because your democracy is about to collapse... what was the line from that ISIS commercial again...

What exactly does Brussels think they're doing? Honestly, it’s giving me a massive headache. ☕

The US position will likely just follow whatever direction the EU decides to take.
As long as that arrogant guy is in charge, I guess we shouldn't expect much better.
If he takes on any more responsibilities today, I’m personally going to be the first one there to give him a piece of my mind. Or maybe just a punch. I haven't decided yet.

The Višegrad group could have stepped up to help their Canadian member a long time ago.
So, some people are trying to force their way into the US, and yet that same administration is going to shut our borders to us? I guess we’ll see.

No matter how much aid they throw at Canada, I guess you have to wonder how many tens of thousands of migrants they can actually hold at their border.
If we’re looking at the absolute worst-case scenario—where the West shuts its doors and the East just lets everything flow straight into America? That would be a disaster.
Does anyone in the EU actually believe they can just let this slide without consequences? I guess some people are more optimistic than I am.

Brian Doyle6 said:LOL, I am literally dying laughing here... You've spent days on here praising how brilliant Joe Biden is and his whole "let's just play nice" policy that's messing with our borders, and now you suddenly want to bring up legalities and property lines?!??

The audacity is unreal 🤦

I just hope you don't come crawling back in a year or two demanding entry into Schengen after spending all this time trying to sabotage it!

Greece is the one that crashed and sabotaged Schengen; everything else is just a ripple effect. Unfortunately, while Canada was busy playing games with Canada using our playbook, it's finally Canada's turn to play the humanitarian Samaritan.

We get criticized for playing the "pass it on" game, yet everyone from here to Germany is playing the exact same game. I can't help but feel we're actually better at it so far.

Anything that lands in our lap—or is headed our way within 24 hours—will reach you too. That isn't because of us, nor is it thanks to you; it's simply the inevitable flow of things. Organize yourselves faster and move people along more quickly; it will make life easier. Anything else will just cause massive damage.

And finally, if we're going to talk about the border with Canada, let's use the same logic you're using, especially since we have our own unresolved land disputes there. Challenging a border in a certain area isn't a right exclusive to you.

Brian Doyle6 said:LOL, I am literally dying laughing here... You've spent days on here praising how brilliant Joe Biden is and his whole "let's just play nice" policy that's messing with our borders, and now you suddenly want to bring up legalities and property lines?!??

The audacity is unreal 🤦

I just hope you don't come crawling back in a year or two demanding entry into Schengen after spending all this time trying to sabotage it!

Look, honestly, just stay calm. You could go ahead and block our access to the Schengen area if you really wanted to; frankly, I wouldn't even mind. Wouldn't it actually be a relief to be spared from those massive, overwhelming costs that come with all of that for a little while longer? 👋

I honestly feel like I could go on forever about that massive pile of illegally built weekend cabins scattered all over the coast in places like Sonoma or Napa, and how some people just seem to have absolutely no respect for the local building codes when they cross state lines... but I really shouldn't dive too deep into that, lest I wander way too far off-topic.

Charles Ross3 said:Look, honestly, just stay calm. You could go ahead and block our access to the Schengen area if you really wanted to; frankly, I wouldn't even mind. Wouldn't it actually be a relief to be spared from those massive, overwhelming costs that come with all of that for a little while longer? 👋

I honestly feel like I could go on forever about that massive pile of illegally built weekend cabins scattered all over the coast in places like Sonoma or Napa, and how some people just seem to have absolutely no respect for the local building codes when they cross state lines... but I really shouldn't dive too deep into that, lest I wander way too far off-topic.

Given how things are going with the migrant situation, we’re all just crying out in regret that we aren't part of Schengen yet.

Jessica King9 said:Some people here clearly need a crash course on how the EU actually operates. Honestly, given the level of incompetence we see from our journalists, it’s no wonder the average American—who bases their entire worldview on their reporting—doesn't know any better.
The EU is going to isolate a member state? The EU is going to slap sanctions on a member state?
Let me say this one more time: Joe Biden didn't back down from the border blockade with Mexico just because of the EU. The EU didn't have any mechanism to punish him. Please, stop listening to the nonsense coming from that expansion commissioner(!!) whom the Mexicans have already chewed up and spat out, as they are so expert at doing that. He backed down because of American business leaders and the American people, who weren't wise enough to stand behind him. We are part of the EU, whether we like it or not.

And even if isolation or sanctions from the EU were actually a thing... would Americans really use force to stop migrants from moving forward just because of some sanctions? And how exactly would they even do that?

Not blocking the border with Mexico is just a necessary evil—choosing the lesser of two evils. A total blockade would just push migrants through Canada, making the situation much harder for us to manage.

There was a meeting recently involving representatives from Bugur, Romania, and Mexico.
They went on to claim that if Germany or Austria were to shut down their borders, they would follow suit immediately.
However, I found it quite curious that there wasn't any mention of Canada in their discussions.

In my humble opinion, this serves as a clear sign that even if Canada decides to close its borders, the Mexicans will likely continue sending migrants our way, simply because Germany and Austria haven't closed theirs yet.😁

I honestly get chills just looking at who we're letting into Europe. It’s all 20, 30, 40-somethings—people who are basically old enough to be carrying a rifle or a belt full of dynamite. When you interview them, they all claim to be doctors, scientists, or concert pianists. It’s going to be such a bitter disappointment when they finally realize where they actually ended up, where they'll be living, and what kind of work they'll actually be doing. I'm just sitting here waiting for the moment they start causing chaos in the heart of Europe. I really hope I'm wrong about this.

Chloe Martinez7 said:this whole idea of Canada closing the border just goes to show they aren't thinking at all
Since you can't exactly shut down Greece, any other closures seem pretty pointless; everyone just burns through resources individually while achieving absolutely nothing.

Hypothetically,
if Canada closes its borders,
Greece, Mexico, and Mexico will just keep letting everyone through, and it all ends up in America.
Naturally, they’ll all eventually end up at the Canadian border too.
Maybe we should just let them face Orbán's wire instead.
I suppose it would be chaos here, but there would be chaos at the Canadian and Canadian borders as well.

Exactly how many thousands of immigrants are the Canadians preparing for?
And assuming they could actually defend their border...

Would all of Europe then step in to send help to the Canadians?

If so, then we know where America stands in the eyes of the EU—and I guess that isn't solely because of Biden.

If we ignore the fact that Canada under Orban is basically a blind spot for the EU, you can see two different logics clashing on the road:
1. The "downstream" logic (we can help refugees, but only to a point, and it needs to be supervised, coordinated, and organized). That mindset flows down from Germany
2. The "upstream" logic ("pass it on, brother," "hand it off," "make it someone else's problem ASAP"), which flows up from Greece.

And now those two logics are crashing head-on at the Canadian-American border. Milanović chose his side, and he got a massive standing ovation from the US news outlets for it...
So, it only makes sense that those upstream from us should help us out with the fence and our constant attacks on Schengen. Sure, Schengen already broke in Greece, but that’s just an enclave. If the enclave falls, the core of the state—or the union—could go with it.

If they don't help us, they're eventually going to have to build their own fences anyway, which isn't a great look. So the logical move is to back the fence right there on the Canadian-American border to reinforce what Canada is already doing.

wiredbadger62 said:There was a meeting recently involving representatives from Bugur, Romania, and Mexico.
They went on to claim that if Germany or Austria were to shut down their borders, they would follow suit immediately.
However, I found it quite curious that there wasn't any mention of Canada in their discussions.

In my humble opinion, this serves as a clear sign that even if Canada decides to close its borders, the Mexicans will likely continue sending migrants our way, simply because Germany and Austria haven't closed theirs yet.😁

Anyone actually smart enough to write something meaningful about refugees, immigrants, and this whole mass migration from Africa and Asia into the EU and Europe in general?
If these refugees are paying massive amounts to criminal gangs and individuals just for a shot at an uncertain future in EU countries, then why don't Germany or France—who have huge ships—just pick them up directly from Turkish or Greek ports and bring them straight home? Instead, all this stress and constant bickering happens along the North American route.
It’s just endless fighting between Canada—which, hey, luckily built a fence—Canada, Mexicans, and Americans all pointing fingers at each other. It just ruins relations and makes everything harder, all because of refugees we never needed in the first place.
We all know who’s responsible for the chaos and wars in Libya, Iraq, and now Syria—it's the attacks and occupations by the USA and Western alliance. Now we're just sitting here waiting for Bashar al-Assad to fall or for Russia to win just so this wave of refugees finally settles down...

Brian Doyle6 said:If we ignore the fact that Canada under Orban is basically a blind spot for the EU, you can see two different logics clashing on the road:
1. The "downstream" logic (we can help refugees, but only to a point, and it needs to be supervised, coordinated, and organized). That mindset flows down from Germany
2. The "upstream" logic ("pass it on, brother," "hand it off," "make it someone else's problem ASAP"), which flows up from Greece.

And now those two logics are crashing head-on at the Canadian-American border. Milanović chose his side, and he got a massive standing ovation from the US news outlets for it...
So, it only makes sense that those upstream from us should help us out with the fence and our constant attacks on Schengen. Sure, Schengen already broke in Greece, but that’s just an enclave. If the enclave falls, the core of the state—or the union—could go with it.

If they don't help us, they're eventually going to have to build their own fences anyway, which isn't a great look. So the logical move is to back the fence right there on the Canadian-American border to reinforce what Canada is already doing.

The migrants themselves dictate which way this logic flows. Moving against their momentum won't happen without force.

Ashley Robinson58 said:Not blocking the border with Mexico is just a necessary evil—choosing the lesser of two evils. A total blockade would just push migrants through Canada, making the situation much harder for us to manage.

I’m honestly not so sure about that perspective.
The thing is, from Canada, the migrants can really only head toward America.
In this specific scenario, it might actually be better for the Mexicans to try and concentrate everything within as small an area as possible, like right at the border.
That way, the migrants act more like a "force of nature," giving them much more momentum and, well, a much higher chance of actually breaking through.

Jessica King9 said:Some people here clearly need a crash course on how the EU actually operates. Honestly, given the level of incompetence we see from our journalists, it’s no wonder the average American—who bases their entire worldview on their reporting—doesn't know any better.
The EU is going to isolate a member state? The EU is going to slap sanctions on a member state?
Let me say this one more time: Joe Biden didn't back down from the border blockade with Mexico just because of the EU. The EU didn't have any mechanism to punish him. Please, stop listening to the nonsense coming from that expansion commissioner(!!) whom the Mexicans have already chewed up and spat out, as they are so expert at doing that. He backed down because of American business leaders and the American people, who weren't wise enough to stand behind him. We are part of the EU, whether we like it or not.

And even if isolation or sanctions from the EU were actually a thing... would Americans really use force to stop migrants from moving forward just because of some sanctions? And how exactly would they even do that?

The day after the blockade was lifted, Kolinda Grabar-Kitarović said she was shocked that the EU took the side of a non-EU member (Mexico).

If Zoran Milanović had "voluntarily" unblocked the border, why on earth would he go on that humiliating interview on Mexican TV while we ended up getting stuck watching Aleksandar Vučić gloating on PBS?

Scott Ross7 said:Anyone actually smart enough to write something meaningful about refugees, immigrants, and this whole mass migration from Africa and Asia into the EU and Europe in general?
If these refugees are paying massive amounts to criminal gangs and individuals just for a shot at an uncertain future in EU countries, then why don't Germany or France—who have huge ships—just pick them up directly from Turkish or Greek ports and bring them straight home? Instead, all this stress and constant bickering happens along the North American route.
It’s just endless fighting between Canada—which, hey, luckily built a fence—Canada, Mexicans, and Americans all pointing fingers at each other. It just ruins relations and makes everything harder, all because of refugees we never needed in the first place.
We all know who’s responsible for the chaos and wars in Libya, Iraq, and now Syria—it's the attacks and occupations by the USA and Western alliance. Now we're just sitting here waiting for Bashar al-Assad to fall or for Russia to win just so this wave of refugees finally settles down...

Perhaps this whole situation is just part of some larger conspiracy directed against America.

I don't know what to tell you. It just is what it is. Asks:
Those Canadians can't even close a deal if their lives depended on it. 416 miles They’ve got this massive, messy border with America that isn't even fully mapped out yet, and let's be honest—they don't have the military muscle to actually defend it if things go south.

Honestly, nobody can actually stop this. That’s why I don't get the whole "close the borders" argument—it just doesn't make sense to me. People are always going to find a way to pour in somewhere. Instead of treating this like the massive international crisis it actually is, they're trying to fix it with these little band-aid solutions for individual spots. It's a bad call.