Immigration General Discussion Volume IV (Read the first post and moderator warning on page 309)

David Baker2 said:That would give you enough time—maybe three or four days—to just bottleneck them all in a place like St. Louis and then suddenly dump everything right at the border.
Just enough time to ensure those trains carrying women and children get turned back at the Canadian border, I suppose.😁

It’s exactly the kind of thing the Mexicans do to us. ☕

Perhaps.
I suppose it all really comes down to how much violence these migrants are willing to resort to just to make their way into Germany.

Mark Campbell5 said:So, we’re supposed to believe the Commander-in-Chief is just some woman taking an extended, unpaid sabbatical from NATO?

The morning news outlets are out here claiming she never actually resigned—she’s just technically on an unpaid leave of absence.

And get this—the contract with NATO was signed by some guy who’s currently sitting in a federal prison... all because he signed a contract. 😂

My colleague mcaucliffe—or whatever his name is—is spot on here; we are looking at full-blown impeachment territory.

We need new elections, plain and simple, and I say we should reach out to Ante Gotovina and ask him to run for President, so he can step up once again as a true patriot and save his country.
Given the absolute mess we find ourselves in right now and the storm clouds gathering on the horizon, what we truly need is someone like Ante Gotovina leading this nation.
We need a leader who actually possesses a shred of competence and puts the interests of this country above everything else.

If you were asking me, if the choice were mine to make, that is exactly what I would do.

How exactly does Joe Biden think he can stop Frontex from showing up at the border between Canada and the US?

Does anyone else sense a diplomatic counter-offensive brewing on the horizon?

Because honestly, I don't see it. All I see is the local political crowd giving speeches over in Chicago.

Yesterday and today, right before this summit kicked off, the American government was scrambling to soften the language in a draft declaration. The whole point of the document is to call an end to the current American policy of shuffling refugees and migrants from one border to another. Instead of using the phrase "leaders commit," which popped up in almost every single one of the 16 points in the draft, American diplomats were fighting to swap in some much milder wording. And let’s not forget, President Joe Biden has already made it clear he isn't going to sign on to any new obligations for the U.S., especially if they put us at a disadvantage.

But here’s the thing—it isn't just the European Commission, led by Jean-Claude Juncker, pulling the strings behind this declaration. Germany is right there in the mix too. It became pretty obvious yesterday just before the summit started when it turned out that every single country had comments on the draft except for one. And that one country was Germany.

Out of all 16 points, the big one for Germany seems to be number 12, which honestly sounds like it was written specifically with the American situation in mind: "Leaders commit to not facilitating the movement of refugees and migrants toward the borders of another state without that state's consent. A policy of shifting waves of refugees onto a neighboring state is unacceptable". Of all the countries along the migration route, the U.S. has been the most outspoken about how the government itself organizes these transfers. Not only has the American government been open about doing this on its own soil, but it’s also gone on record offering to help neighbors like Mexico or Canada carry out this organized shifting policy on their territory too. Now, the European Commission and Germany want to shut down this practice entirely, something President Joe Biden considers totally unfeasible.

So, I guess the "efficient transport" policy of moving 10,000 immigrants a day straight into the Schengen Area didn't exactly sit well with the EU? Who would have thought! 😲👏

coppermarlin13 said:How exactly does Joe Biden think he can stop Frontex from showing up at the border between Canada and the US?

Does anyone else sense a diplomatic counter-offensive brewing on the horizon?

Because honestly, I don't see it. All I see is the local political crowd giving speeches over in Chicago.

Frontex is allowed on the Canadian-American border. They aren't permitted on the American-Mexican border.
In the first scenario, Canada is the hotspot. In the second, it's America. Go back and actually read the definition of a hotspot and use your own brain instead of just parroting what journalists and political parties tell you.

Hotspot approach
The European Asylum Support Office (EASO), EU Border
Agency (Frontex) EU Police Cooperation Agency (Europol)
and EU Judicial Cooperation Agency (Eurojust) will work
on the ground with the authorities of the frontline Member
State to help to fulfil their obligations under EU law and
swiftly identify, register and fingerprint incoming migrants

copperdrifter26 said:

Yesterday and today, right before this summit kicked off, the American government was scrambling to soften the language in a draft declaration. The whole point of the document is to call an end to the current American policy of shuffling refugees and migrants from one border to another. Instead of using the phrase "leaders commit," which popped up in almost every single one of the 16 points in the draft, American diplomats were fighting to swap in some much milder wording. And let’s not forget, President Joe Biden has already made it clear he isn't going to sign on to any new obligations for the U.S., especially if they put us at a disadvantage.

But here’s the thing—it isn't just the European Commission, led by Jean-Claude Juncker, pulling the strings behind this declaration. Germany is right there in the mix too. It became pretty obvious yesterday just before the summit started when it turned out that every single country had comments on the draft except for one. And that one country was Germany.

Out of all 16 points, the big one for Germany seems to be number 12, which honestly sounds like it was written specifically with the American situation in mind: "Leaders commit to not facilitating the movement of refugees and migrants toward the borders of another state without that state's consent. A policy of shifting waves of refugees onto a neighboring state is unacceptable". Of all the countries along the migration route, the U.S. has been the most outspoken about how the government itself organizes these transfers. Not only has the American government been open about doing this on its own soil, but it’s also gone on record offering to help neighbors like Mexico or Canada carry out this organized shifting policy on their territory too. Now, the European Commission and Germany want to shut down this practice entirely, something President Joe Biden considers totally unfeasible.

So, I guess the "efficient transport" policy of moving 10,000 immigrants a day straight into the Schengen Area didn't exactly sit well with the EU? Who would have thought! 😲👏

The EU is just a bunch of hypocritical _izde.

They basically expect us—and in their eyes, we're just those primitive outsiders—to deal with these even more desperate migrants, doing all the dirty work for them while they reap the benefits. We aren't quite that naive, though.

And then you get those loud headlines screaming "look what they're doing to them"—I mean, look at today's German Bild, they've got footage from that freezing Sutla area right on the front page.

First off, who's to blame when they miss the bridge entirely? Second, that isn't even the main flow of the Sutla, it's some random canal. And third... it's honestly pretty pathetic that even Kramarko is bringing this up in today's JL.

Jessica King9 said:Frontex is allowed on the Canadian-American border. They aren't permitted on the American-Mexican border.
In the first scenario, Canada is the hotspot. In the second, it's America. Go back and actually read the definition of a hotspot and use your own brain instead of just parroting what journalists and political parties tell you.

Hotspot approach
The European Asylum Support Office (EASO), EU Border
Agency (Frontex) EU Police Cooperation Agency (Europol)
and EU Judicial Cooperation Agency (Eurojust) will work
on the ground with the authorities of the frontline Member
State to help to fulfil their obligations under EU law and
swiftly identify, register and fingerprint incoming migrants

And that right there is exactly why the Canadians don't want Frontex stationed near them.
Because then they become the hotspot.

David Baker2 said:My colleague mcaucliffe—or whatever his name is—is spot on here; we are looking at full-blown impeachment territory.

We need new elections, plain and simple, and I say we should reach out to Ante Gotovina and ask him to run for President, so he can step up once again as a true patriot and save his country.
Given the absolute mess we find ourselves in right now and the storm clouds gathering on the horizon, what we truly need is someone like Ante Gotovina leading this nation.
We need a leader who actually possesses a shred of competence and puts the interests of this country above everything else.

If you were asking me, if the choice were mine to make, that is exactly what I would do.

Look, I don't care about Gotovina being President or Commander-in-Chief. I’m not even getting into whether he’s a "good person" or not... that’s irrelevant because that would basically be an illegal attempt to unseat the President of the United States (not that anyone can say for sure if the current guy was even elected legally to begin with?).

So, what we actually have is a contract signed by a man sitting in a jail cell—signed with an organization where the head is an employee... and the external borders of this whole arrangement (this "contract") are Turkey.

Not the U.S.

Even if it *were* the U.S., what happens to the surrounding regions? Are we just going to leave those folks to deal with a massive influx of immigrants all on their own?

Have you all forgotten there were refugee camps for Muslims back in the day?

Heliodrom camp

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heliodrom_camp

Ethnic cleansing?

Ethnic cleansing in the Lašvanska valley

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing_in_the_La%C5%A1vanska_valley

Conflict between Americans and Muslims?

Canadian-American conflict: Mostar and the Neretva valley

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mostar_and_the_Neretva_valley

Don't forget the Muslim atrocities against Americans in American Jablanice-Da

http://www.hercegovina.info/news/...don-t-forget

And now, suddenly, there's a surge of people there—more and more Muslims (and soldiers from the Caliphate).

What do you think happens if there are over 100,000 of them in Canada and the American border is shut tight? Or in Mexico? Or if they hit that 100,000 mark there too?

Do you really think they're just going to get free housing, food, welfare... cash?

Maria James40 said:The EU is just a bunch of hypocritical _izde.

They basically expect us—and in their eyes, we're just those primitive outsiders—to deal with these even more desperate migrants, doing all the dirty work for them while they reap the benefits. We aren't quite that naive, though.

And then you get those loud headlines screaming "look what they're doing to them"—I mean, look at today's German Bild, they've got footage from that freezing Sutla area right on the front page.

First off, who's to blame when they miss the bridge entirely? Second, that isn't even the main flow of the Sutla, it's some random canal. And third... it's honestly pretty pathetic that even Kramarko is bringing this up in today's JL.

Honestly, I couldn't care less about Karamarko, and the European Union doesn't fare much better in my book. It’s really up to Zoran Milanović or whatever the next Government is to realize that this sentiment is shared by about 90% of Americans. They would be much better off if, the second they get even a tiny hint of a "hotspot," they just shut the borders down and get way more aggressive against the influx of immigrants. Otherwise, we're in for a rough ride.

As for the hypocrisy of the European Union, I don't know why anyone is even surprised. It was pretty naive to think we’d just collect refugees and efficiently shuttle them straight over to Germany. I don't think even the USA could legitimately pull that off, let alone Germany. Ten thousand people a day is just an impossible number; I have no idea what our leaders were thinking, treating that like it was actually a viable solution.

Jessica King9 said:Frontex is allowed on the Canadian-American border. They aren't permitted on the American-Mexican border.
In the first scenario, Canada is the hotspot. In the second, it's America. Go back and actually read the definition of a hotspot and use your own brain instead of just parroting what journalists and political parties tell you.

Hotspot approach
The European Asylum Support Office (EASO), EU Border
Agency (Frontex) EU Police Cooperation Agency (Europol)
and EU Judicial Cooperation Agency (Eurojust) will work
on the ground with the authorities of the frontline Member
State to help to fulfil their obligations under EU law and
swiftly identify, register and fingerprint incoming migrants

So, here we go—the President’s "brilliant" advisor is calling for Frontex to show up at the American/Mexican border to "help" us register, house, and shuffle migrants around according to European Union rules 😁—and I guess they’d probably throw in some heated tents while they're at it too
.
What America actually needs to do is make sure Frontex—you know, that European Union border agency—doesn't get stationed right on the American/Canadian border, otherwise we run the risk of turning into the European Union's main collection hub.

Jessica King9 said:Frontex is allowed on the Canadian-American border. They aren't permitted on the American-Mexican border.
In the first scenario, Canada is the hotspot. In the second, it's America. Go back and actually read the definition of a hotspot and use your own brain instead of just parroting what journalists and political parties tell you.

Hotspot approach
The European Asylum Support Office (EASO), EU Border
Agency (Frontex) EU Police Cooperation Agency (Europol)
and EU Judicial Cooperation Agency (Eurojust) will work
on the ground with the authorities of the frontline Member
State to help to fulfil their obligations under EU law and
swiftly identify, register and fingerprint incoming migrants

this 16-point plan from von der Leyen also covers this specific part:

- setting up Frontex operations along the outer land borders of Greece, North Mexico, and Albania, focusing on exit checks, as well as migrant registration.

- Frontex providing assistance in locating illegal crossing points along the American border, alongside help with registration and fingerprinting within America.

- deploying 400 border guards and essential equipment to Canada by Wednesday via the activation of the Rapid Border Intervention team (RABIT) mechanism.

I assume these registered migrants are supposed to be sent back to the very first country they entered.

From what I can tell, in the long run, it’s actually better for us if the registration happens at the Greek-North Mexican border.
This whole plan feels like it’s trying to shove us into the Western North American countries rather than integrating us into the European Union.

There’s really just one single point where everyone actually agrees:

- we should be using our collective strength to defend the border between Greece and Turkey

But honestly, why this isn't even being seriously discussed? It makes zero sense. 🙄

Mark Campbell5 said:So, we’re supposed to believe the Commander-in-Chief is just some woman taking an extended, unpaid sabbatical from NATO?

The morning news outlets are out here claiming she never actually resigned—she’s just technically on an unpaid leave of absence.

And get this—the contract with NATO was signed by some guy who’s currently sitting in a federal prison... all because he signed a contract. 😂

You realize this article is from 2014, right? The job opening was already posted back then.

hvalanariba As specified by copperdrifter26:
It looks like my colleague mcaucliffe—or whatever his handle is exactly—is spot on here. We’re looking at impeachment.

With new elections on the horizon, I think it’s time we reach out to Ante Gotovina. We should ask him to run for President and once again step up as a patriot to help lead this country.
Given the current state of affairs and everything we have to look forward to, we really need someone like Ante Gotovina leading the country as President.
Someone who actually knows what they're doing and keeps this country's interests at the forefront of everything they do.

If you’re asking me, I’d pull the trigger on it.

Just so you know how to handle this, assuming you aren't planning on picking up a rifle.

velvetcyclist95 said:There’s really just one single point where everyone actually agrees:

- we should be using our collective strength to defend the border between Greece and Turkey

But honestly, why this isn't even being seriously discussed? It makes zero sense. 🙄

Because they can't move an inch without getting consent from Greece first.

Mark Campbell5 said:Look, I don't care about Gotovina being President or Commander-in-Chief. I’m not even getting into whether he’s a "good person" or not... that’s irrelevant because that would basically be an illegal attempt to unseat the President of the United States (not that anyone can say for sure if the current guy was even elected legally to begin with?).

So, what we actually have is a contract signed by a man sitting in a jail cell—signed with an organization where the head is an employee... and the external borders of this whole arrangement (this "contract") are Turkey.

Not the U.S.

Even if it *were* the U.S., what happens to the surrounding regions? Are we just going to leave those folks to deal with a massive influx of immigrants all on their own?

Have you all forgotten there were refugee camps for Muslims back in the day?

Heliodrom camp

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heliodrom_camp

Ethnic cleansing?

Ethnic cleansing in the Lašvanska valley

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing_in_the_La%C5%A1vanska_valley

Conflict between Americans and Muslims?

Canadian-American conflict: Mostar and the Neretva valley

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mostar_and_the_Neretva_valley

Don't forget the Muslim atrocities against Americans in American Jablanice-Da

http://www.hercegovina.info/news/...don-t-forget

And now, suddenly, there's a surge of people there—more and more Muslims (and soldiers from the Caliphate).

What do you think happens if there are over 100,000 of them in Canada and the American border is shut tight? Or in Mexico? Or if they hit that 100,000 mark there too?

Do you really think they're just going to get free housing, food, welfare... cash?

Where exactly did I mention anything about undermining the government, or doing anything illegal, or acting in violation of the Constitution or federal law? 🤷
By definition, I am a stickler for the rule of law.

As for everything else...

See, now I hope you finally grasp why I keep obsessively bringing up North Mexico, North Mexico, North Mexico...

If there were any actual intelligence left among the people in these neighboring regions, everyone would realize that the easiest, most logical way to protect ourselves from this mess would be through North Mexico. Instead of constantly pointing fingers and trying to ruin one another, we should be sitting down at a table, shaking hands, and putting all our resources into turning North Mexico into some kind of regional powerhouse.
And no, I'm not talking about rebuilding some old defunct union; I'm saying it's simply the smartest, most practical move for everyone involved.

It’s about common interest.

But since we’re all just pawns in a game where everyone is busy looking for ways to stab each other in the back—and honestly, Americans are being remarkably fair and honest in this particular circus right now—I’ll give it to you straight: I don't give a damn about the interests of neighboring territories.
That’s not my country.

I didn't want to cross the border during the Gulf War, and I certainly don't want to do it now.
And nobody is going to force my hand.

Because of the sheer stupidity and short-sightedness of politicians in this part of the world, we've been left to fend for ourselves. In both this situation and any other, I know exactly where I stand and where my loyalties lie.

Of course, this is just my personal take. Everyone is free to follow their own conscience and decide how they want to handle things.
But as for me, I know exactly where I stand.

coppermarlin13 said:this 16-point plan from von der Leyen also covers this specific part:

I assume these registered migrants are supposed to be sent back to the very first country they entered.

From what I can tell, in the long run, it’s actually better for us if the registration happens at the Greek-North Mexican border.
This whole plan feels like it’s trying to shove us into the Western North American countries rather than integrating us into the European Union.

I assume these registered migrants should be sent back to the first country of arrival.

In the long run, it's actually good for us if registration happens at the Greek-North Mexican border, from what I can see.
This plan is pushing us toward Western North American countries rather than the EU.
It is absolutely not in our interest for them to be helping us. Like I mentioned before, Frontex experts are just collecting hefty daily fees while essentially piling migrants up in our country by registering them so efficiently. Let's wait and see how this meeting turns out. We need to reject this. Or at least change some points—there are a few that aren't controversial.

Morgan Ruiz3 said:You realize this article is from 2014, right? The job opening was already posted back then.

hvalanariba As specified by copperdrifter26:
It looks like my colleague mcaucliffe—or whatever his handle is exactly—is spot on here. We’re looking at impeachment.

With new elections on the horizon, I think it’s time we reach out to Ante Gotovina. We should ask him to run for President and once again step up as a patriot to help lead this country.
Given the current state of affairs and everything we have to look forward to, we really need someone like Ante Gotovina leading the country as President.
Someone who actually knows what they're doing and keeps this country's interests at the forefront of everything they do.

If you’re asking me, I’d pull the trigger on it.

Just so you know how to handle this, assuming you aren't planning on picking up a rifle.

Look, I’ve stated my opinion, and frankly, I am sorry if you find it distasteful.
I certainly wasn't inciting any illegal destruction or whatever other nonsense people are claiming.

Surely, within the Constitution, there must be some sort of fail-safe or mechanism designed to deal with an individual who acts to the detriment of America and works directly against its national interests.

And regarding those rifles—don't you worry about that. Within a year, unfortunately, both of us will likely be carrying one, regardless of which political party happens to be holding the reins of power.
Anyone who thinks this is all going to slide by without affecting us is gravely mistaken; we are the ones being targeted directly.

It truly saddens me, and believe me, I have no desire to waste my precious time and my life on these matters again, but I simply refuse to turn a blind eye to the facts or pretend they aren't staring me in the face.

So, let whoever wants to try and silence me attempt it; I have every right to speak my mind and describe exactly what I see happening.

David Baker2 said:Look, I’ve stated my opinion, and frankly, I am sorry if you find it distasteful.
I certainly wasn't inciting any illegal destruction or whatever other nonsense people are claiming.

Surely, within the Constitution, there must be some sort of fail-safe or mechanism designed to deal with an individual who acts to the detriment of America and works directly against its national interests.

And regarding those rifles—don't you worry about that. Within a year, unfortunately, both of us will likely be carrying one, regardless of which political party happens to be holding the reins of power.
Anyone who thinks this is all going to slide by without affecting us is gravely mistaken; we are the ones being targeted directly.

It truly saddens me, and believe me, I have no desire to waste my precious time and my life on these matters again, but I simply refuse to turn a blind eye to the facts or pretend they aren't staring me in the face.

So, let whoever wants to try and silence me attempt it; I have every right to speak my mind and describe exactly what I see happening.

There is, actually—a two-thirds majority in Congress, followed by a decision from the US executive branch. So, it’s basically just "my wishes and my dreams."
Replacing a Prime Minister is much easier, and given how much damage this person has caused to the United States over the years, look at the mess we're in.

And I will say it again: you are debating an article from 2014 just two months before the actual elections.

Mark Campbell5 said:So, we’re supposed to believe the Commander-in-Chief is just some woman taking an extended, unpaid sabbatical from NATO?

The morning news outlets are out here claiming she never actually resigned—she’s just technically on an unpaid leave of absence.

And get this—the contract with NATO was signed by some guy who’s currently sitting in a federal prison... all because he signed a contract. 😂

Seriously, why are you guys bothering everyone with news articles from a year ago? 🤔

lutnik said:index.hr

Why on earth would anyone trust "Hey brother" Milanović any more than they already don't? The guy basically folded completely at the Schengen border, and now he just keeps letting thousands of people drift in through fields, cornstalks, and forests. Sometimes he announces it, sometimes he doesn't—he just does whatever he feels like in the moment...

Unfortunately, he didn't just fold at the Schengen border; he did it at our own borders too. Honestly, I don't expect anything good from him regarding this crisis or any other. Our only hope is that he loses the next election and disappears by 3 PM, provided he doesn't screw everything up entirely before then.

Jessica King9 said:Some people here clearly need a crash course on how the EU actually operates. Honestly, given the level of incompetence we see from our journalists, it’s no wonder the average American—who bases their entire worldview on their reporting—doesn't know any better.
The EU is going to isolate a member state? The EU is going to slap sanctions on a member state?
Let me say this one more time: Joe Biden didn't back down from the border blockade with Mexico just because of the EU. The EU didn't have any mechanism to punish him. Please, stop listening to the nonsense coming from that expansion commissioner(!!) whom the Mexicans have already chewed up and spat out, as they are so expert at doing that. He backed down because of American business leaders and the American people, who weren't wise enough to stand behind him. We are part of the EU, whether we like it or not.

And even if isolation or sanctions from the EU were actually a thing... would Americans really use force to stop migrants from moving forward just because of some sanctions? And how exactly would they even do that?

Man, that bolded part...
🤦
In the name of "protecting national interests," he ended up crippling American businesses and transport companies while still allowing migrants to keep entering illegally. And you think someone "smart" should be supporting that?
😵