Immigration General Discussion Volume IV (Read the first post and moderator warning on page 309)

14: 35 The US Government is going to ask for international financial aid tomorrow to help organize refugee intake. This request for global assistance is specifically looking for material resources through the EU Civil Protection Mechanism.

I guess we’re finally actually asking for some real help for once.
If they're gonna step up for Canada, then they better do the same for us too.
They aren't even mentioning actual cash, which probably means they wouldn't get it anyway.

Sam Ramos85 said:My parents are actually up in Germany right now, and they’re telling me that none of these able-bodied men Angela Merkel has been taking in lately are even looking for work—they're just wandering around aimlessly.

So you mean they *are* looking for something, maybe even an actual job?😁

These meetings are always my favorite part:

The meeting concluded that under the framework of Frontex (the European Agency for Management of operational cooperation at external borders), there is an urgent need to operationalize "hot spots" on Greek territory. All EU nations would be involved in this effort, tasked with registering and profiling individuals—specifically distinguishing refugees from economic migrants—as they enter from Turkey.

Give me a break, guys... seriously? As if Greece is just going to roll over and accept this.🤦
It’s the same tired narrative on loop, and frankly, the Greeks couldn't care less about it. It isn't as if we haven't realized all along that the goal is simply to bottleneck everything in Greece.

Jessica King9 said:The problem is that "long term" turns into "short term" real fast when you look at these massive numbers. If 7,000 people are arriving every single day and we just shut our borders, we'll have 140,000 people standing at our doorstep in less than three weeks. Who stops that without using force? And even if you do use force, you might lose the first thousand, but the other 139,000 are still pushing forward.
It's the same situation with the Americans in nearby states, if they decide to wall themselves off from us.
What's happening right now is actually the smartest move. I was just reading an article in The New York Times about what Ostojić said:

He mentioned that the European Union offered police and personnel assistance to America at the start of the crisis. "America has its own border patrol with enough manpower. Our response was that this help should be sent to where the problems are originating—the Greek border."

That lines up perfectly with my view. It's all about plugging the leak far away from us.
If those neighbors try to ask for help instead of holding the line, they aren't just hurting us—they're hurting themselves.
We're definitely the ones making the smartest calls in this whole chain.

Nobody is going to die here. You just need to use the same police tactics used for unruly sports fans—batons, tear gas, rubber bullets, water cannons. Migrants will give up very quickly once they realize there's no way through. Do you really think they traveled all this way to Europe just to die at some border crossing?
They caused a bit of chaos at the American border for about half a day before they realized it wasn't working and pivoted to an alternative route—which unfortunately led them straight toward us. How many people died at that border? Absolutely nobody.
These people aren't superheroes who can just stomp through fences, wire, and police lines.
Besides, just look at the fencing in Bulgaria.
https://www.google.com/search?q=bulga...w=1680&bih=955
It's fully funded by EU money.
With the Bulgarian police maintaining a firm hand, nobody dares try to cross through Bulgaria, even though it's the shortest land route available.
http://www.bghelsinki.org/media/uplo...demolition.jpg
Instead, they're taking a huge detour around Bulgaria. They go from Turkey by sea to Greece, and then through Mexico.
If you look at a map, you'll see how much closer it is via Bulgaria; it's all land travel, no sea crossings required.
Just compare how many people were entering America before the fence compared to how many managed to get in yesterday.
Keep in mind that neither the Bulgarian nor the American police have killed a single migrant.

We shouldn't rely on others like Greece or Turkey; that's a trap because they have their own agendas, just like we do. We can secure our own peace, just like Canada and Bulgaria have done. We could try a "Plan D" instead of just a border fence, but I honestly don't know how effective that would be at stopping the flow.
Of course, the alternative is to stop defending the border entirely and just accept 70,000 or 140,000 migrants permanently—giving them jobs, housing, and covering all their living expenses... Because one day, borders *will* start closing for good, and then there won't be any more detours through Canada or Canada. Canada has already shut its doors. Migrants could get stuck in Mexico, or they could get stuck right here with us.

Michael Roberts7 said:Where exactly are you getting this idea that they are uneducated?
To add to that, my father moved to Germany back in 1963 after completing four years of school and six months of vocational training. He built up a decent amount of wealth there entirely legally, paying his fair share of taxes along the way. His only brush with the law was back in 1965; he received news from home that his son had been born, and in his excitement, he hopped on his bike while intoxicated—he didn't even own a car yet—and ended up colliding with a police cruiser in traffic.

If young, educated professionals can't find work because they're being undercut by unskilled immigrants who lack basic literacy, then we have to face a hard truth: the issue lies with those graduates and their unrealistic expectations.

Just to demonstrate how much you bend the statistics to fit your own narrative:

From that Wikipedia article you cited:
If you look strictly at the number of registered foreign nationals, the figures tell one story. However, once you filter out offenses that simply couldn't be committed by Americans, that ratio plummets to 2.4 to 1. And if we narrow our focus specifically to males between the ages of 14 and 21, the ratio settles even lower at 1.9 to 1.

When calculating that nearly fivefold increase in offenses, you really have to factor out the 20% of crimes committed by individuals without legal residency in Germany—like those organized Romanian burglary rings. You also need to exclude transit-related offenses occurring at borders or airports. Beyond that, we should set aside violations concerning illegal entry and residency status; those are the types of infractions that a local resident or even an EU citizen simply wouldn't be capable of committing in Germany. http://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/m.../10269280.html.

You can use a simple calculator to prove your statistics are accurate, provided you actually take the time to run the numbers through a basic calculation.
If women make up less than 6% of German prisons, that implies men are responsible for roughly 94% of those offenses. When you factor in that most crimes are committed by men between the ages of 14 and 49, we have to adjust our estimates accordingly. Ultimately, this suggests we don't actually have 100% reliable statistics.
I think they're making more mistakes than that, but certainly not five times as many as you're claiming.
If you factor all of this in, you’ll end up with a multiplier somewhere between 1.1 and 1.4x—though even those figures aren't perfectly accurate, they certainly aren't as off as yours.

In Germany, the statistical percentage of female criminals is lower than the overall female population, largely because many young German women between 14 and 21 get caught shoplifting from local grocery stores. On the other hand, you don't see Muslim girls doing that as much because they know there will be much harsher consequences waiting for them at home. That’s just how it works. And remember, all of this petty crime gets lumped into those same statistics.

As Churchill famously put it, “I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.”

Just to demonstrate how much you bend the statistics to fit your own narrative:

From that Wikipedia article you cited:
If you look strictly at the number of registered foreign nationals, the figures tell one story. However, once you filter out offenses that simply couldn't be committed by Americans, that ratio plummets to 2.4 to 1. And if we narrow our focus specifically to males between the ages of 14 and 21, the ratio settles even lower at 1.9 to 1.

When calculating that nearly fivefold increase in offenses, you really have to factor out the 20% of crimes committed by individuals without legal residency in Germany—like those organized Romanian burglary rings. You also need to exclude transit-related offenses occurring at borders or airports. Beyond that, we should set aside violations concerning illegal entry and residency status; those are the types of infractions that a local resident or even an EU citizen simply wouldn't be capable of committing in Germany. http://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/m.../10269280.html.

You can use a simple calculator to prove your statistics are accurate, provided you actually take the time to run the numbers through a basic calculation.
If women make up less than 6% of German prisons, that implies men are responsible for roughly 94% of those offenses. When you factor in that most crimes are committed by men between the ages of 14 and 49, we have to adjust our estimates accordingly. Ultimately, this suggests we don't actually have 100% reliable statistics.
I think they're making more mistakes than that, but certainly not five times as many as you're claiming.
If you factor all of this in, you’ll end up with a multiplier somewhere between 1.1 and 1.4x—though even those figures aren't perfectly accurate, they certainly aren't as off as yours.

In Germany, the statistical percentage of female criminals is lower than the overall female population, largely because many young German women between 14 and 21 get caught shoplifting from local grocery stores. On the other hand, you don't see Muslim girls doing that as much because they know there will be much harsher consequences waiting for them at home. That’s just how it works. And remember, all of this petty crime gets lumped into those same statistics.

As Churchill famously put it, “I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.”

Just to demonstrate how much you bend the statistics to fit your own narrative:

From that Wikipedia article you cited:
If you look strictly at the number of registered foreign nationals, the figures tell one story. However, once you filter out offenses that simply couldn't be committed by Americans, that ratio plummets to 2.4 to 1. And if we narrow our focus specifically to males between the ages of 14 and 21, the ratio settles even lower at 1.9 to 1.

When calculating that nearly fivefold increase in offenses, you really have to factor out the 20% of crimes committed by individuals without legal residency in Germany—like those organized Romanian burglary rings. You also need to exclude transit-related offenses occurring at borders or airports. Beyond that, we should set aside violations concerning illegal entry and residency status; those are the types of infractions that a local resident or even an EU citizen simply wouldn't be capable of committing in Germany. http://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/m.../10269280.html.

You can use a simple calculator to prove your statistics are accurate, provided you actually take the time to run the numbers through a basic calculation.
If women make up less than 6% of German prisons, that implies men are responsible for roughly 94% of those offenses. When you factor in that most crimes are committed by men between the ages of 14 and 49, we have to adjust our estimates accordingly. Ultimately, this suggests we don't actually have 100% reliable statistics.
I think they're making more mistakes than that, but certainly not five times as many as you're claiming.
If you factor all of this in, you’ll end up with a multiplier somewhere between 1.1 and 1.4x—though even those figures aren't perfectly accurate, they certainly aren't as off as yours.

In Germany, the statistical percentage of female criminals is lower than the overall female population, largely because many young German women between 14 and 21 get caught shoplifting from local grocery stores. On the other hand, you don't see Muslim girls doing that as much because they know there will be much harsher consequences waiting for them at home. That’s just how it works. And remember, all of this petty crime gets lumped into those same statistics.

As Churchill famously put it, “I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.”

Is that just some local urban legend, or did he actually tell you that himself?
My old man’s got a story that hits pretty close to home; he tells me that when I was born, he’d spent every cent he'd earned over the previous five years down the drain and showed up at the house without a single dime to his name.
He once stumbled out of a bar and ran right into a cop car, so they basically had to give him a ride home.🤣

So now they catch some kid trying to sneak across the border and just burn him in Turkey where he can't even leave the camp 😁

Steven Richardson3 said:So now they catch some kid trying to sneak across the border and just burn him in Turkey where he can't even leave the camp 😁

The Americans from the South are probably already packing their bags, ready to head straight for Munich if the route shifts their way.

Michael Roberts7 said:The pace and the specific targets just didn't exist like this, whether we're talking about legitimate cases or fake asylum seekers.

Who would have stumbled upon an alternative route through the US just by chance a hundred years ago? People would still be debating where to go next after the Canadians shut down the borders.

You either sell whatever little you have, or you take out a loan—how much do you think it costs to get those dollars through Mexico by bus? Maybe 35k? And back then, the journey would have taken weeks.

They simply have better access to information now.

Everything is digitized—the E-book, E-personal ID, Erodian documents, the E-diploma, all of it.
That’s exactly why they’re carrying smartphones; they need them to pull up all their paperwork.🙏

Rachel Reyes93 said:

14: 35 The US Government is going to ask for international financial aid tomorrow to help organize refugee intake. This request for global assistance is specifically looking for material resources through the EU Civil Protection Mechanism.

I guess we’re finally actually asking for some real help for once.
If they're gonna step up for Canada, then they better do the same for us too.
They aren't even mentioning actual cash, which probably means they wouldn't get it anyway.

Nobody is being stingy; there's plenty to go around if they just want to share.

Steven Richardson3 said:So now they catch some kid trying to sneak across the border and just burn him in Turkey where he can't even leave the camp 😁

The idea that just one person would actually go through with that...🕺

Rachel Reyes93 said:

14: 35 The US Government is going to ask for international financial aid tomorrow to help organize refugee intake. This request for global assistance is specifically looking for material resources through the EU Civil Protection Mechanism.

I guess we’re finally actually asking for some real help for once.
If they're gonna step up for Canada, then they better do the same for us too.
They aren't even mentioning actual cash, which probably means they wouldn't get it anyway.

Look, we’ve already gone through the motions—we searched, we found what we were looking for, and honestly, I’m pretty sure we’ll find even more down the road. It just feels like the reporters out there are totally out of the loop, you know? They just don't seem to have the full story. 😁

So, Ostojić was standing there in front of the White House talking to the press, and he mentioned... If they had just requested the money from those emergency funds right away—I mean, like, the very next day after the migrants arrived—everything might have gone differently, I guess. Maybe things would have been smoother if that funding was immediate... just a thought.So, I was just reading that the EU Commissioner for Migration basically confirmed we’ve got about $70 million sitting there from the long-term Asylum, Migration and Security Fund—which, I guess, is a pretty significant chunk of change when you think about it. And get this, they’re saying that if things get even more complicated, we might actually be able to tap into the Schengen Facility Fund too. It feels like there's finally some actual movement on the funding side of things, though I suppose we'll have to see how all that money actually gets deployed... maybe?

Posted October 7, 2015

Jessica King9 said:It’s highly unlikely, given our membership in the European Union. Besides, it wouldn't be a smart move anyway. It serves the interests of the Austrians and Germans to keep the bottleneck as far away as possible. Not to mention the Canadians.
What if all those countries—including us—just sent their aid to the other Schengen border, like the one in Greece? If that doesn't work, we could just cut ties with the Greeks (I'm not sure how exactly) and redirect everything to the border between Greece and North Mexico.

On the Mexican border, there are 16 miles (near Bitola) + 11 miles (near Gevgelija) borders that need closing. But back in the spring, the Mexicans were calling for help and everyone seemed a little deaf to the situation...

A major news outlet just picked up this statement from a local official whose town was recently crossed by migrants:

"These aren't refugees. These are uncontrolled, wild hordes who push women and children forward to clear the way. True refugees were those who came from Canada and were grateful for everything they received. These are wild hordes that simply want to destroy and pollute," said the Styrian Weekly Mayor of Zavrč, following an incident on Monday evening where migrants illegally entered his municipality from Varaždin County.
"Everything is ruined. They urinated right where they stood. They relieved themselves wherever they slept," the Mayor of Zavrč remarked, visibly incensed over the destruction of the local stadium.
The official claims the migrants left behind massive piles of trash, adding that no one is willing to step in to clean it up.
"Nobody wants to touch this garbage. Blankets, shoes, food—they just tossed it all aside. We prepared 1,200 meals. They were given food, but they just threw it away."

Maria James40 said:Look, we’ve already gone through the motions—we searched, we found what we were looking for, and honestly, I’m pretty sure we’ll find even more down the road. It just feels like the reporters out there are totally out of the loop, you know? They just don't seem to have the full story. 😁

So, Ostojić was standing there in front of the White House talking to the press, and he mentioned... If they had just requested the money from those emergency funds right away—I mean, like, the very next day after the migrants arrived—everything might have gone differently, I guess. Maybe things would have been smoother if that funding was immediate... just a thought.So, I was just reading that the EU Commissioner for Migration basically confirmed we’ve got about $70 million sitting there from the long-term Asylum, Migration and Security Fund—which, I guess, is a pretty significant chunk of change when you think about it. And get this, they’re saying that if things get even more complicated, we might actually be able to tap into the Schengen Facility Fund too. It feels like there's finally some actual movement on the funding side of things, though I suppose we'll have to see how all that money actually gets deployed... maybe?

Posted October 7, 2015

I mean, if that’s actually true, then fine, whatever, but we've still got all these other expenses piling up. Like, the buses and trains are constantly breaking down and needing repairs, and gas prices are just eating us alive, yet nobody seems to be handing us a dime to cover any of it.

I mean, the real question here is just how much farmland, orchards, and backyard gardens have actually been trampled underfoot.

I guess we really need to start making some noise like they did in Canada, honestly. They were the first ones to jump up and demand actual financial aid, and look what happened—they ended up taking in 2,400 people right off the bat.

Alexander Ortiz3 said:A major news outlet just picked up this statement from a local official whose town was recently crossed by migrants:

"These aren't refugees. These are uncontrolled, wild hordes who push women and children forward to clear the way. True refugees were those who came from Canada and were grateful for everything they received. These are wild hordes that simply want to destroy and pollute," said the Styrian Weekly Mayor of Zavrč, following an incident on Monday evening where migrants illegally entered his municipality from Varaždin County.
"Everything is ruined. They urinated right where they stood. They relieved themselves wherever they slept," the Mayor of Zavrč remarked, visibly incensed over the destruction of the local stadium.
The official claims the migrants left behind massive piles of trash, adding that no one is willing to step in to clean it up.
"Nobody wants to touch this garbage. Blankets, shoes, food—they just tossed it all aside. We prepared 1,200 meals. They were given food, but they just threw it away."

Heh... But hey, look at Canada... Cerar... That's just our society for you. Western Europe... 🤣 🤣

Rachel Reyes93 said:

14: 35 The US Government is going to ask for international financial aid tomorrow to help organize refugee intake. This request for global assistance is specifically looking for material resources through the EU Civil Protection Mechanism.

I guess we’re finally actually asking for some real help for once.
If they're gonna step up for Canada, then they better do the same for us too.
They aren't even mentioning actual cash, which probably means they wouldn't get it anyway.

Except the Austrians were specifically asking for hardware and extra cops to watch the border.

Meanwhile, here we are, begging for tents and heated shipping containers to house migrants. 🙄

It's basically Plan H... aka the "HotSpot" strategy.

Alexander Ortiz3 said:A major news outlet just picked up this statement from a local official whose town was recently crossed by migrants:

"These aren't refugees. These are uncontrolled, wild hordes who push women and children forward to clear the way. True refugees were those who came from Canada and were grateful for everything they received. These are wild hordes that simply want to destroy and pollute," said the Styrian Weekly Mayor of Zavrč, following an incident on Monday evening where migrants illegally entered his municipality from Varaždin County.
"Everything is ruined. They urinated right where they stood. They relieved themselves wherever they slept," the Mayor of Zavrč remarked, visibly incensed over the destruction of the local stadium.
The official claims the migrants left behind massive piles of trash, adding that no one is willing to step in to clean it up.
"Nobody wants to touch this garbage. Blankets, shoes, food—they just tossed it all aside. We prepared 1,200 meals. They were given food, but they just threw it away."

You actually missed the most ironic part of the whole story:

"The mayor has called for help from volunteers in America, offering 100 dollars a day to help with the cleanup."

So, you have this horrified mayor frantically calling on Americans to come clean up the mess that apparently "no one in Austria wants to touch"... 🤣 Just yesterday, Austria was presenting itself as this perfectly "organized nation" (unlike the other countries on the route, right? How could they possibly be anything else given their reputation?), but today they are so disorganized they can't even manage the trash left by the migrants, let alone anything more significant.

At the border, there’s police, SWAT teams, armored vehicles, the military, dogs—but it’s all for nothing; the migrants set fire to all the tents and thousands of them crossed the Austrian border without a single care in the world.

The headlines read: "Chaos at the Austrian border," "Chaos in Šentilj"....
And yet, until yesterday, they were saying, "We are an organized and serious nation"...

I don't feel happy about this, and honestly, I almost feel bad for them... because they are clearly unprepared, living in some kind of fantasy where they think their little country is this perfect "Alpine dream"... where life is just yodeling, skiing... and maybe a quick trip to the coast during the summer...

velvetcyclist95 said:Except the Austrians were specifically asking for hardware and extra cops to watch the border.

Meanwhile, here we are, begging for tents and heated shipping containers to house migrants. 🙄

It's basically Plan H... aka the "HotSpot" strategy.

We aren't even asking for more than what we've already burned through. I don't think this is enough to house 200,000 people; it feels more like just enough to patch up the FEMA sites and cover whatever was pulled from the emergency reserves.

Charles Ross3 said:You actually missed the most ironic part of the whole story:

"The mayor has called for help from volunteers in America, offering 100 dollars a day to help with the cleanup."

So, you have this horrified mayor frantically calling on Americans to come clean up the mess that apparently "no one in Austria wants to touch"... 🤣 Just yesterday, Austria was presenting itself as this perfectly "organized nation" (unlike the other countries on the route, right? How could they possibly be anything else given their reputation?), but today they are so disorganized they can't even manage the trash left by the migrants, let alone anything more significant.

At the border, there’s police, SWAT teams, armored vehicles, the military, dogs—but it’s all for nothing; the migrants set fire to all the tents and thousands of them crossed the Austrian border without a single care in the world.

The headlines read: "Chaos at the Austrian border," "Chaos in Šentilj"....
And yet, until yesterday, they were saying, "We are an organized and serious nation"...

I don't feel happy about this, and honestly, I almost feel bad for them... because they are clearly unprepared, living in some kind of fantasy where they think their little country is this perfect "Alpine dream"... where life is just yodeling, skiing... and maybe a quick trip to the coast during the summer...

The sad part is Americans will probably fight each other over a job like that...

Charles Ross3 said:You actually missed the most ironic part of the whole story:

"The mayor has called for help from volunteers in America, offering 100 dollars a day to help with the cleanup."

So, you have this horrified mayor frantically calling on Americans to come clean up the mess that apparently "no one in Austria wants to touch"... 🤣 Just yesterday, Austria was presenting itself as this perfectly "organized nation" (unlike the other countries on the route, right? How could they possibly be anything else given their reputation?), but today they are so disorganized they can't even manage the trash left by the migrants, let alone anything more significant.

At the border, there’s police, SWAT teams, armored vehicles, the military, dogs—but it’s all for nothing; the migrants set fire to all the tents and thousands of them crossed the Austrian border without a single care in the world.

The headlines read: "Chaos at the Austrian border," "Chaos in Šentilj"....
And yet, until yesterday, they were saying, "We are an organized and serious nation"...

I don't feel happy about this, and honestly, I almost feel bad for them... because they are clearly unprepared, living in some kind of fantasy where they think their little country is this perfect "Alpine dream"... where life is just yodeling, skiing... and maybe a quick trip to the coast during the summer...

Totally agree. Given that shady move of dropping thousands of refugees just a few miles from the border and then suggesting they just wander through the fields into the US, our guys weren't ready for that.