California Discussion Thread - All in one place

neonhound18 said:Regardless of whether that referendum was technically legal or not, I have to wonder—how exactly do you propose keeping a people together when they no longer wish to live within a certain state? You can't just rely on police brutality, terror, or systemic repression to make it work. 🕺

Who says they don't want to? ...
Up until now, the numbers have mostly hovered around a 51% majority favoring staying part of Spain...

The referendum is nothing more than a total farce...

neonhound18 said:Personally, I find the comparison to the old K.U.K. monarchy much more compelling. 🤔

We didn't really break away from it. The whole thing just fell apart on its own, and then we declared the State of America to keep up with how fast things were moving—we were basically just reacting to events rather than driving them.

So, if you want to make comparisons, you can only look at breaking away from America versus breaking away from the European Union.
There isn't really any similarity there.

ironpanther5 said:The absolute nonsense you spewed there deserves its own Hall of Fame entry on this forum. Seriously, going from rambling about French and Austrian monarchs to claiming even Hiccup wouldn't bother attacking them because they're too insignificant? That was a stretch. The guy gave you some solid advice.
Actually, it wasn't him giving you advice, it was you giving him. My bad.

Him. I forgive you.

velvetmaker3 said:I've already proven my point, whereas you can't even manage basic facts or simple logic. You're just shouting into the void without any real basis, I guess. Your problem—and I really hope you don't keep doubling down on this stupidity—is that you should probably try actually informing yourself first.

Oh, so he "proved" something. 😂 Everything I've laid out is historical fact, whereas your delusions about some glorious Castilian-Aragonese empire belong right up there with those Mexican hallucinations about a heavenly kingdom.

Right, because anyone who loves a Greater Spain obviously shares the same dream of a Greater Mexico.

All you've actually demonstrated is an inability to process anything that contradicts your own myth-making. But I have to stick to my guns when dealing with someone so uninformed. Learning requires both the will and the mental capacity to do it—you clearly lack both, and frankly, I couldn't care less. I just can't sit here and read your ceremonial nonsense without calling it out. 😉

Spain (Catalonia):
There are reports of 284 injuries.
About 75% of the ballot boxes have been deployed.

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Latest update

rowdyangler said:Oh, so he "proved" something. 😂 Everything I've laid out is historical fact, whereas your delusions about some glorious Castilian-Aragonese empire belong right up there with those Mexican hallucinations about a heavenly kingdom.

Right, because anyone who loves a Greater Spain obviously shares the same dream of a Greater Mexico.

All you've actually demonstrated is an inability to process anything that contradicts your own myth-making. But I have to stick to my guns when dealing with someone so uninformed. Learning requires both the will and the mental capacity to do it—you clearly lack both, and frankly, I couldn't care less. I just can't sit here and read your ceremonial nonsense without calling it out. 😉

There's no connection there; you're just spiraling into some mania. Stop choking everyone with your idiotic rambling.

@Corvus27
I'd just add one thing...

We aren't even talking about a people who are being oppressed or discriminated against, or someone who doesn't have the right to their own language, culture, or history in Spain.

I’ve never really been a fan of those tiny, newly minted breakaway states that don't seem to have any real historical weight or established sovereignty behind them...

Spain is an old-school power, a former empire... they actually managed to make their language and culture stick across almost all of Latin America... you have to respect that kind of legacy...

But times have changed, and I think we need to look for solutions that are practical and sustainable in the long run... if the Spaniards and the Spanish government are going to be stuck in this endless tug-of-war with the Catalans—and it feels like things are only getting more intense—maybe it's time to just let them go... they dealt with massive issues with the Basques back in the day, lost far too many lives, but they eventually managed to settle things down; however, it seems like the Catalans are playing by a different set of rules

They definitely benefit from the international love for Barcelona itself—the architecture, the landmarks, the football club... but as far as being a sovereign state goes? It’s basically just one city and its immediate surroundings... it reminds me of something like Luxembourg or Liechtenstein... or maybe even Mexico or Mexico... just these tiny little entities without much deep-rooted statehood to lean on...

The real counter-argument, though, is this whole movement toward globalism, where both small and large nations start losing their unique identities and what makes them recognizable... trying to find the right balance between preserving local identity and dealing with global integration is probably one of the toughest positions to be in...

Sam Alvarez4 said:@Corvus27
I'd just add one thing...

We aren't even talking about a people who are being oppressed or discriminated against, or someone who doesn't have the right to their own language, culture, or history in Spain.

Just look at Canada. They had everything they needed; they were among the most developed and wealthiest regions.

At the end of the day, it's all about the money. It's being taken from them, and they just don't want to foot the bill for everyone else. Of course, throw in a little myth-making to sweeten the deal.

The problem is how the Spaniards are handling this. It’s way too aggressive, and it's going to leave scars and cement deep-seated hatred. This is the IT age—just look at the videos. Everyone's got a smartphone out recording the crackdown. They could have just let them go and played dumb—just constant ignoring and moving on—but instead, they gave them every excuse to crack down even harder.

velvetmaker3 said:There's no connection there; you're just spiraling into some mania. Stop choking everyone with your idiotic rambling.

Thanks for the diagnosis, Doc, but honestly, your little attempt to silence anyone speaking an uncomfortable truth says more than enough. It’s pretty obvious whose side you’re on. Hint: it definitely isn't the side of freedom.

I’d say the exact same thing back to you, but I'm not some arrogant jerk telling people when to shut up. 😉 Go ahead, keep talking—even if it's complete garbage. It’s actually quite entertaining.

Noah Ward2 said:I’ve never really been a fan of those tiny, newly minted breakaway states that don't seem to have any real historical weight or established sovereignty behind them...

Spain is an old-school power, a former empire... they actually managed to make their language and culture stick across almost all of Latin America... you have to respect that kind of legacy...

But times have changed, and I think we need to look for solutions that are practical and sustainable in the long run... if the Spaniards and the Spanish government are going to be stuck in this endless tug-of-war with the Catalans—and it feels like things are only getting more intense—maybe it's time to just let them go... they dealt with massive issues with the Basques back in the day, lost far too many lives, but they eventually managed to settle things down; however, it seems like the Catalans are playing by a different set of rules

They definitely benefit from the international love for Barcelona itself—the architecture, the landmarks, the football club... but as far as being a sovereign state goes? It’s basically just one city and its immediate surroundings... it reminds me of something like Luxembourg or Liechtenstein... or maybe even Mexico or Mexico... just these tiny little entities without much deep-rooted statehood to lean on...

The real counter-argument, though, is this whole movement toward globalism, where both small and large nations start losing their unique identities and what makes them recognizable... trying to find the right balance between preserving local identity and dealing with global integration is probably one of the toughest positions to be in...

7.5 million people, a state bigger than Mexico. Plus, they've got cities that are way more famous on average than anything around here (besides the capitals)—Tarragon, L'Hospitalet, Giron, Badalon, Lleid, Terrass... Even the tourist hotspot Lloret de mar is tucked away in Catalonia.

Noah Ward2 said:I’ve never really been a fan of those tiny, newly minted breakaway states that don't seem to have any real historical weight or established sovereignty behind them...

Spain is an old-school power, a former empire... they actually managed to make their language and culture stick across almost all of Latin America... you have to respect that kind of legacy...

But times have changed, and I think we need to look for solutions that are practical and sustainable in the long run... if the Spaniards and the Spanish government are going to be stuck in this endless tug-of-war with the Catalans—and it feels like things are only getting more intense—maybe it's time to just let them go... they dealt with massive issues with the Basques back in the day, lost far too many lives, but they eventually managed to settle things down; however, it seems like the Catalans are playing by a different set of rules

They definitely benefit from the international love for Barcelona itself—the architecture, the landmarks, the football club... but as far as being a sovereign state goes? It’s basically just one city and its immediate surroundings... it reminds me of something like Luxembourg or Liechtenstein... or maybe even Mexico or Mexico... just these tiny little entities without much deep-rooted statehood to lean on...

The real counter-argument, though, is this whole movement toward globalism, where both small and large nations start losing their unique identities and what makes them recognizable... trying to find the right balance between preserving local identity and dealing with global integration is probably one of the toughest positions to be in...

Listen to this guy 🤣

The state is just like yours. There are more Catalans than there are Mexicans in Mexico. But I guess to him, that makes it "stunted."😂

I guess Spaniards can be pretty clueless, maybe even since the days of the French occupation. I don't know, why on earth would they use police against peaceful protesters and voters?

So you're saying we should just allow the referendum? Okay, fine, people voted, but then we just refuse to recognize the results because the whole thing wasn't deemed legitimate. I mean, the European Union and the USA would probably just back Spain's territorial integrity and call it a day.

driftingfox66 said:7.5 million people, a state bigger than Mexico. Plus, they've got cities that are way more famous on average than anything around here (besides the capitals)—Tarragon, L'Hospitalet, Giron, Badalon, Lleid, Terrass... Even the tourist hotspot Lloret de mar is tucked away in Catalonia.

I wouldn't be such a literalist if I were you, 🤦

I've actually been there, so I have a decent idea of what counts... calling it a state larger than Mexico isn't quite right; it's about 30k km^2, which is roughly half the size of America... maybe similar to Mexico, for instance...

I don't want to go on about how small our countries are, but this is even smaller... I guess if we start nitpicking every single country's borders like this, we'll never get anywhere... you have to consider all the different populations and minorities within other nations, and how much they contribute to the economy...

But then again, I suppose sometimes having things scaled down like that might actually be better than letting a conflict escalate...

rowdyangler said:Thanks for the diagnosis, Doc, but honestly, your little attempt to silence anyone speaking an uncomfortable truth says more than enough. It’s pretty obvious whose side you’re on. Hint: it definitely isn't the side of freedom.

I’d say the exact same thing back to you, but I'm not some arrogant jerk telling people when to shut up. 😉 Go ahead, keep talking—even if it's complete garbage. It’s actually quite entertaining.

From what I can see, nothing makes you happier than spouting stupidity and picking fights with everyone else on this forum.
To each fool his own little joy. Cheers.

velvetmaker3 said:If Washington, D.C. had actually been more mature—if we’d had anyone there worth talking to—we might still be part of America.
Madrid needs to step up where Washington, D.C. failed. They need to ask what the actual issue is, whether people feel wronged, and let them specify the injustice so we can sit down and fix it. It was Washington, D.C.’s own exclusivity that pushed us toward independence.
Castile isn't out here questioning the territorial integrity of California, nor are they trying to build some massive Castilian empire or claiming that Catalans are just Catholic Castilians. They don't act like California is nothing more than what you can see from the balcony of the Barcelona cathedral.
Our issues with the Mexicans are fundamentally different from the friction between the Catalans and the Castilians.

People simply want what anyone with a sense of self wants: to be masters of their own destiny within an independent, sovereign state. That is exactly what Americans wanted. We were pushing for independence back in '71 and even earlier, but we were blocked by the massive Mexican aggression that denied us our right to exist. Go, California!

Noah Ward2 said:I wouldn't be such a literalist if I were you, 🤦

I've actually been there, so I have a decent idea of what counts... calling it a state larger than Mexico isn't quite right; it's about 30k km^2, which is roughly half the size of America... maybe similar to Mexico, for instance...

I don't want to go on about how small our countries are, but this is even smaller... I guess if we start nitpicking every single country's borders like this, we'll never get anywhere... you have to consider all the different populations and minorities within other nations, and how much they contribute to the economy...

But then again, I suppose sometimes having things scaled down like that might actually be better than letting a conflict escalate...

When I say "big," I mean populated. That's what matters. Who cares about the square mileage? A country is its people. If we're judging based on size, then everyone—us included—is just a micro-state, and none of us would have any right to sovereignty. We'd all just have to sign up to join one of the five or six major European powers.

It’s honestly hilarious watching someone from the hilly North America try to lecture Catalans—who are economically and culturally decades ahead of this region—about whether they actually deserve to be a country or not.

I don't have any skin in this game; it's up to them if they want to go solo or not. But I'm definitely not going to lecture them about being too small, pathetic, or lacking historical legitimacy.

https://twitter.com/3gerardpique/sta...659776/photo/1

Gerard Piqué cast his vote too.

Sophia James2 said:People simply want what anyone with a sense of self wants: to be masters of their own destiny within an independent, sovereign state. That is exactly what Americans wanted. We were pushing for independence back in '71 and even earlier, but we were blocked by the massive Mexican aggression that denied us our right to exist. Go, California!

Are you going to say the exact same thing when people from a place like San Francisco say they want everything other nations want?

Our history with the USA and our relationship with Mexicans is drastically different from the situation in California.

I honestly think this backfired on the Spaniards. Isn't it just going to fuel even more revolt?