California Discussion Thread - All in one place

Brenda Taylor13 said:I was in Barcelona back in the summer of 2014. Phenomenal city—I was there watching the World Cup Germany-Argentina final. Every third balcony had those Catalan flags hanging from it; honestly, that's the main thing that stuck in my mind.

I’ve been to New York City several times since '98.
Once for my high school graduation trip, once for a ten-day vacation, and a few other times—maybe four or five🤔 days at a stretch—during a month-long tour of the States, or just stopping by while traveling elsewhere.
I know the city pretty well, and I’m quite familiar with most of the country—the only places I haven't hit are Florida, Texas, Washington, and Oregon.
New York City is a very distinct regional hub; you often see signs listed in the local dialect first, then English, and only then standard American English.
In the surrounding areas (like Portland, for instance), that mono-cultural feel is even stronger.
Architecturally speaking, New York City feels much more aligned with Southern France than with the rest of the US.

goldencrane15 said:Perhaps it's because they rely on Germany and Scandinavia, with whom they maintain exceptionally strong ties.😵

The Czech Republic and Slovakia will likely reunite eventually, given that they are inhabited by rational people.

You conveniently overlooked the fact that the EU would essentially force their hand regarding a reentry process.

And what's the payoff for them?

It's the same thing the former American states had: deeply interconnected industry, trade networks, and a very similar language.

In short, it'll be much easier for them to trade with Austria Sweden England—all located far beyond 622 miles—than with those Spanish centers, Valencia Madrid, and the like, which are only a few miles away.

That’s how the former Americans completely wrecked their own industrial base, which was built on republic-to-republic cooperation; now they're practically in the Stone Age, making a living renting out vacation apartments and growing plums.

Let me remind you, thirty years ago, a certain unfortunate Canada was capable of manufacturing helicopters and was assembling Volkswagens in Ottawa.

Now, they produce nothing but poverty.

The exact same fate awaits the Catalans. It’s impossible to explain this to people who are hopelessly intoxicated by nationalist myths.

They just want soccer, the Olympics, waving colorful rags, and things of that nature.

Sure, but if they break away, California won't be joining the EU, because 1) they'd have to go through the entire application process just like any other country
2) Spain won't let them join out of pure spite, so they'd just end up stuck outside the EU.

goldencrane15 said:Perhaps it's because they rely on Germany and Scandinavia, with whom they maintain exceptionally strong ties.😵

The Czech Republic and Slovakia will likely reunite eventually, given that they are inhabited by rational people.

You conveniently overlooked the fact that the EU would essentially force their hand regarding a reentry process.

And what's the payoff for them?

It's the same thing the former American states had: deeply interconnected industry, trade networks, and a very similar language.

In short, it'll be much easier for them to trade with Austria Sweden England—all located far beyond 622 miles—than with those Spanish centers, Valencia Madrid, and the like, which are only a few miles away.

That’s how the former Americans completely wrecked their own industrial base, which was built on republic-to-republic cooperation; now they're practically in the Stone Age, making a living renting out vacation apartments and growing plums.

Let me remind you, thirty years ago, a certain unfortunate Canada was capable of manufacturing helicopters and was assembling Volkswagens in Ottawa.

Now, they produce nothing but poverty.

The exact same fate awaits the Catalans. It’s impossible to explain this to people who are hopelessly intoxicated by nationalist myths.

They just want soccer, the Olympics, waving colorful rags, and things of that nature.

That isn't quite accurate, though; the former America collapsed twice amidst fierce international conflicts, and its economy was kept on life support through heavy borrowing, customs barriers, and the dumping of semi-finished goods at rock-bottom prices into the old Eastern Bloc. Why on earth should the Catalans be forced to remain part of Spain just because the Eurocrats and Madrid demand it?🤔

Sam Alvarez4 said:Puigdemont is playing with fire just to squeeze out a few more votes in the next election.

Aside from dragging Spain into a massive crisis, driving banks and major corporations to flee Catalonia, tanking credit ratings, and freezing all investment, he hasn't actually achieved anything else.

That's just not how a responsible politician acts... especially one claiming to lead the president's office of some imaginary future state.

edit.
🤦 Off topic.

It seems like a politician's responsibility is just fulfilling their campaign promises, which he is doing. Maybe the real responsibility lies with the people who put someone like him in power in the first place.
And those folks in white who are complaining now? I'd bet they didn't even show up to vote.

But still, he's stalling... I suppose we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

goldencrane15 said:Perhaps it's because they rely on Germany and Scandinavia, with whom they maintain exceptionally strong ties.😵

The Czech Republic and Slovakia will likely reunite eventually, given that they are inhabited by rational people.

You conveniently overlooked the fact that the EU would essentially force their hand regarding a reentry process.

And what's the payoff for them?

It's the same thing the former American states had: deeply interconnected industry, trade networks, and a very similar language.

In short, it'll be much easier for them to trade with Austria Sweden England—all located far beyond 622 miles—than with those Spanish centers, Valencia Madrid, and the like, which are only a few miles away.

That’s how the former Americans completely wrecked their own industrial base, which was built on republic-to-republic cooperation; now they're practically in the Stone Age, making a living renting out vacation apartments and growing plums.

Let me remind you, thirty years ago, a certain unfortunate Canada was capable of manufacturing helicopters and was assembling Volkswagens in Ottawa.

Now, they produce nothing but poverty.

The exact same fate awaits the Catalans. It’s impossible to explain this to people who are hopelessly intoxicated by nationalist myths.

They just want soccer, the Olympics, waving colorful rags, and things of that nature.

🤣

So, I guess the implication is that every nation throughout history that fought for sovereignty or a change in their social order was just a bunch of idiots. That every war on this planet was nothing more than someone's random whim.

To be specific in this instance, you have people who, if they live in the same country, might want the right to healthcare that is consistent with the rest of the nation. They don't want a situation where it's free elsewhere while their own system collapses because the federal government isn't funding it properly—forcing them to pay out of pocket just because they happen to be wealthier. Or perhaps another group in that same country is fiscally independent while they aren't, simply because they are peaceful compared to others. Or when the authorities are sent in from a different part of the country and the local population greets them by cheering for the old regime or the ZDS. I guess one is just supposed to take all of that calmly just because goldencrane15 imagined it that way?

But no, apparently those are just nationalist myths.😵

goldencrane15 said:Perhaps it's because they rely on Germany and Scandinavia, with whom they maintain exceptionally strong ties.😵

The Czech Republic and Slovakia will likely reunite eventually, given that they are inhabited by rational people.

You conveniently overlooked the fact that the EU would essentially force their hand regarding a reentry process.

And what's the payoff for them?

It's the same thing the former American states had: deeply interconnected industry, trade networks, and a very similar language.

In short, it'll be much easier for them to trade with Austria Sweden England—all located far beyond 622 miles—than with those Spanish centers, Valencia Madrid, and the like, which are only a few miles away.

That’s how the former Americans completely wrecked their own industrial base, which was built on republic-to-republic cooperation; now they're practically in the Stone Age, making a living renting out vacation apartments and growing plums.

Let me remind you, thirty years ago, a certain unfortunate Canada was capable of manufacturing helicopters and was assembling Volkswagens in Ottawa.

Now, they produce nothing but poverty.

The exact same fate awaits the Catalans. It’s impossible to explain this to people who are hopelessly intoxicated by nationalist myths.

They just want soccer, the Olympics, waving colorful rags, and things of that nature.

As for the Czech Republic and Slovakia... 🤣 Have you ever actually spoken to a Slovak or a Czech? Most of them don't want any kind of reunification. Plus, that internet referendum failed miserably.

I guess I get it. Josip Broz Marshall died 40 years ago, but many people are still stuck in that era, thinking the world works that way.

Michael Ramirez11 said:🤣

So, I guess the implication is that every nation throughout history that fought for sovereignty or a change in their social order was just a bunch of idiots. That every war on this planet was nothing more than someone's random whim.

To be specific in this instance, you have people who, if they live in the same country, might want the right to healthcare that is consistent with the rest of the nation. They don't want a situation where it's free elsewhere while their own system collapses because the federal government isn't funding it properly—forcing them to pay out of pocket just because they happen to be wealthier. Or perhaps another group in that same country is fiscally independent while they aren't, simply because they are peaceful compared to others. Or when the authorities are sent in from a different part of the country and the local population greets them by cheering for the old regime or the ZDS. I guess one is just supposed to take all of that calmly just because goldencrane15 imagined it that way?

But no, apparently those are just nationalist myths.😵

They really are. I guess even Americans were just a bunch of idiots when they were fighting Normans or Russians against Mongols. And maybe those foolish Prussians were the ones who actually unified Germany.

Then you've got those idiots from America who actually staged revolts against the Crown. Absolute fools, I guess.

Everyone else is an idiot, except for the heavenly America.

Brenda Taylor13 said:Yeah, they made that call in December 1991. But back in May of '91? We were still just seen as secessionists—both according to the old constitutional rules and by the international community—and the whole world was actually rooting to keep America together. Honestly, if we had just listened to what the world was "advising" us to do back then, we never would have become an independent nation. Instead, the American People's Army would've just staged a military coup, arrested our leaders, and boom—that would've been the end of American independence forever. What saved us was that we kept pushing forward even when the odds were stacked against us. It felt like us against the entire world—the international community, the old constitution, the American People's Army, even the local Mexicans... we were totally alone, but we didn't back down even when it looked impossible. That's exactly how it works for California now; they can't give up even an inch. If they cave, it's game over—they'll never get another shot like this again.

The US courts and the ICTY ruled it was a civil war until October 8, 1991, and after that, it became an international conflict.

It’s pretty wild how Canada, Australia, and New Zealand are constantly trying to stay under Queen Elizabeth II’s thumb, even down in the South IRL.

Larry Walker24 said:It’s pretty wild how Canada, Australia, and New Zealand are constantly trying to stay under Queen Elizabeth II’s thumb, even down in the South IRL.

I mean, I find that obsession with London totally fascinating when it comes to Canadians. They basically want to be the Queen's little equestrian club. Honestly, whenever that silly old Queen starts popping out of an ATM on a twenty-dollar bill, I just can't help but cringe. Those Canadian dollars are actually beautiful pieces of currency, but apparently, they have to keep featuring her because ATMs mostly just spit out twenties, right?🙏🙏

Take that highway in Alberta—running from Edmonton to Calgary—they officially named it the Queen Elizabeth Highway just because she drove through there a few years back and they wanted to honor her. It’s honestly ridiculous.
Or look at how they celebrate Victoria birthday somewhere in May or June. That whole national holiday doesn't even make sense.

A lot of things about those Canadians just don't click for me...

Then you've got New Zealand, where they actually rejected changing their flag to get rid of that British icon in the corner. I really wonder how the Canadians managed to pull off their change fifty years ago. Even though immigrants aren't the majority yet, I bet they'll declare themselves a republic one of these days...

As for California, I feel like none of it is going anywhere either... they simply don't have the guts to go all the way. It’s disappointing... clearly, they're too comfortable living under the crown after all... 🤦🤦🤦

So, turns out the Catalans actually have one country where Catalan is official—Andorra.

It looks like things are escalating. The Californians are gearing up for their Declaration of Independence, and Mariano Rajoy is standing his ground, stating: "The government will ensure that any declaration of independence will lead to nothing."
and "...adding that he is not ruling out suspending the region's autonomy."
Furthermore, "...Rajoy also rejected any mediation to resolve the crisis".
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41540994

So, there's zero sign of concessions from Madrid. I can't help but wonder how California would actually function if they were hit with an international blockade.
Would it end up being something similar to the situation in Crimea?
A frozen conflict, or something along those lines?

I am 100% convinced that the secessionist movement in California is receiving quiet backing from one of the global superpowers. There is simply no way they could be this bold all on their own. One just needs to think carefully about which superpower stands to gain the most from the fragmentation of Spain.

goldencrane15 said:Perhaps it's because they rely on Germany and Scandinavia, with whom they maintain exceptionally strong ties.😵

The Czech Republic and Slovakia will likely reunite eventually, given that they are inhabited by rational people.

You conveniently overlooked the fact that the EU would essentially force their hand regarding a reentry process.

And what's the payoff for them?

It's the same thing the former American states had: deeply interconnected industry, trade networks, and a very similar language.

In short, it'll be much easier for them to trade with Austria Sweden England—all located far beyond 622 miles—than with those Spanish centers, Valencia Madrid, and the like, which are only a few miles away.

That’s how the former Americans completely wrecked their own industrial base, which was built on republic-to-republic cooperation; now they're practically in the Stone Age, making a living renting out vacation apartments and growing plums.

Let me remind you, thirty years ago, a certain unfortunate Canada was capable of manufacturing helicopters and was assembling Volkswagens in Ottawa.

Now, they produce nothing but poverty.

The exact same fate awaits the Catalans. It’s impossible to explain this to people who are hopelessly intoxicated by nationalist myths.

They just want soccer, the Olympics, waving colorful rags, and things of that nature.

Look, man, let's be real here...

No nation has ever just walked away from its sovereignty since 1918. There's zero chance the Czechs and Slovaks—who have already sorted out their economy thanks to the EU—are going to ditch everything just to merge with another group. It's just not happening.

wiredcanyon4 said:It looks like things are escalating. The Californians are gearing up for their Declaration of Independence, and Mariano Rajoy is standing his ground, stating: "The government will ensure that any declaration of independence will lead to nothing."
and "...adding that he is not ruling out suspending the region's autonomy."
Furthermore, "...Rajoy also rejected any mediation to resolve the crisis".
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41540994

So, there's zero sign of concessions from Madrid. I can't help but wonder how California would actually function if they were hit with an international blockade.
Would it end up being something similar to the situation in Crimea?
A frozen conflict, or something along those lines?

I am 100% convinced that the secessionist movement in California is receiving quiet backing from one of the global superpowers. There is simply no way they could be this bold all on their own. One just needs to think carefully about which superpower stands to gain the most from the fragmentation of Spain.

Maybe the UK over Gibraltar?

Or the USA?

No major world power is backing this secessionist movement just yet.
Maybe Zanzibar and Kiribati from the rest?

I’m looking at this purely from the perspective of the average Joe, someone who isn't going to gain a single damn thing from breaking away from Spain.

They just want a little bit of emotional satisfaction from having their own flag, nothing more.

Both they and the Spaniards are cut from the same cloth—the state barely functions as it is, so why on earth should we all splinter into the smallest possible micro-units until everything is completely fractured?

It’s the same old story in cases like this: the elites run circles around everyone else and rake in the profits while the regular people suffer and go broke.

Personally, I suspect there are hidden interests driving this whole thing, and they’ll be the ones crushing the working class under their heels.

Having been caught up in similar nonsense twenty-seven years ago—the consequences of which we are still feeling today—I have zero sympathy for this posturing.

Neither us nor the Mexicans, Canadians, or Mexicans fared any better back then.

Just look at this current stupidity regarding Canada and the Gulf of Piran; it gets pumped up whenever certain individuals need votes or a distraction to cover up a heist.

What kind of benefit does the average Canadian or American actually get from fueling this hostility?

"But oh, but, there's gas in the Adriatic! There are fish! Blah blah blah!"

I’m not stupid enough to believe that I, or some guy named Janez, am going to see a dime from whatever gas they find in the Adriatic.

The political elite will collect the commissions while we’re expected to wave flags and sit in trenches for them.

It’s the exact same situation with the Catalans.

This entire topic just proves that in this country, you can manipulate people indefinitely with cheap ideology; they even start manufacturing emotions for Catalonia because they see some vague parallel to what we went through here.

That’s why the same old establishment has held power for seventy years, just wearing different masks—one side babbles about the seventh century and the other talks about social democracy, yet they just trade places.

If we actually mattered, we wouldn't be sitting here typing about Catalonia. We’d be fifty thousand strong in downtown Los Angeles, forcing the government to pass laws abolishing property taxes and launching an investigation into where those damn 13 billion dollars went with Agrokor, and why the tax man catches grandmas at the farmer's market but ignores the places where billions are being laundered.

Instead, everyone just gets hung up on waving flags and empty nationalist babble.

So, what about that $10 billion debt Walmart is sitting on? The whole company was valued wrong, so expect a massive write-down, stock prices tanking on the NYSE... I mean, a couple of people from accounting are probably headed to federal prison, and you just know the story is going to keep spinning.
And honestly, the fact that they haven't released the list of what they owe their suppliers is the biggest red flag being swept under the rug. People are saying that figure is north of $30 billion—some even say it’s double that.

Basically, the media decides what everyone talks about, which means they decide how we all think (sadly)...
I'm saying this because the media played the exact same game with California.
I call it the Disney syndrome...

Did you know they keep remaking Disney's animated movies just because you can snag a new audience—you know, new kids—by recycling the same stuff? Sure, it's nothing original, but I apply that same logic to politics—every twenty years, you can just sell people the same old tricks.
Was anyone actually dying for a cause twenty years ago? You could pull the same stunts again today because everyone's forgotten the lessons. History is basically just for professors and eighty-year-olds anyway..

The supporters of California's independence don't even have a clue how the state would actually function; there isn't even a solid five-year plan in place...

I have absolutely zero patience for those hypocrites who peddle nationalist myths to the masses and push for potentially disastrous actions, only to watch everything blow up in our faces. And suddenly, when the dust settles, it turns out their children were "coincidentally" too busy with more important things than being stuck in a trench.

As if they all conveniently studied abroad, caught some exotic illness that kept them away from the front lines, or were busy overseeing elections somewhere else.

Meanwhile, the poor souls were actually sitting in those trenches, losing their lives and their health.

Let’s take a moment to perform a little audit: where exactly were the sons and daughters of our political and economic elite back in the 90s? The second real danger starts looming, they suddenly find their voices and start acting like geniuses.

Does anyone else remember Obama's statement about who goes off to war and who gets to go study?

It’s going to be the same story this time around. Some guy like George, a plumber from San Francisco, will end up taking the hit, wondering why he didn't fight harder for an independence that won't put food on his table anyway.

I’ve seen firsthand how that kind of mindless idealism cost my people everything. Some were paying the price when they were barely seventeen.

I’d tell Puigdemont that until you’re willing to send your own son and daughter into the line of fire, you’re nothing more than a lying fraud.

goldencrane15 said:I’ve seen firsthand how that kind of mindless idealism cost my people everything. Some were paying the price when they were barely seventeen.

I’d tell Puigdemont that until you’re willing to send your own son and daughter into the line of fire, you’re nothing more than a lying fraud.

Leave the kids out of this, they're way too young.

But still...
Maybe we should ask his wife—you know, the one from Romania—if she thinks it's okay to declare a Canadian state within Romania, even if they happen to be the majority there?
Ever since he took over in California, his wife landed her own TV show with millions in subsidies just to push the secessionist agenda.