Why did Jesus die?

Harold Reyes3 said:

Jesus Christ is perfect and eternal. He’s the Son of God, and He died to pay our debt.

What kind of punishment are we talking about? 🙄 What's the charge?

God showed us exactly how much He loves us when Christ died on the cross. It was the ultimate move—He stepped in and took the punishment we actually deserved!

Look at it this way: if you’re just watching from the sidelines while someone you care about gets nailed to a cross—half-naked, covered in blood, and getting beaten to death—that isn't love. There’s zero love in just standing there and letting a close friend suffer like that.

Seriously, what kind of punishment do we actually deserve? I mean, come on, people—what are we even talking about here? Does any of this make sense? Is someone else supposed to suffer on my behalf just because I follow my passions or mess up sometimes? The idea that Jesus takes all those sins upon himself simply because I believe in him and his sacrifice on the cross... give me a break! 🙄

Three days later, Jesus rose from the dead! He showed everyone exactly what it means to triumph over sin and death once and for all.

Easter isn't really about death. Think about it: He never truly died. Jesus said that when someone passes away, their spirit becomes like an angel. Well, He was both flesh and spirit at the same time—just like we are! Because He exists in both realms, death couldn't actually claim Him.

Our faith calls us to step up.Turn away from sin and turn toward Christ for salvation!

The Bible clearly states that God alone is the Savior, not Jesus!

If we put our trust in Him, believing that His death on the cross paid for our sins, we will receive forgiveness and the promised life in heaven—eternal life.
Romans 10:9 "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Only redemption through Christ can save us from sin.
Draw your own conclusion from that.🤷
I wrote this based on my faith.

Look, honey, take a seat and actually think about what you just typed. 🙄It makes zero sense to say someone dies for us while we keep sinning—especially when we're doing it subconsciously—as if we have a free pass to mess up because Jesus died for us.

This whole argument is totally misleading because it ignores God entirely. It skips the part where you personally seek His forgiveness through prayer, where you truly repent and ask for mercy.

God explains how to receive forgiveness in the Quran:

110. Whoever does an evil deed or sins against himself and then asks God for forgiveness, will find that God is forgiving and merciful.

There’s no such thing as Jesus suffering to take on everyone else's sins; honestly, that would just be unfair to Jesus.

🙂🙂🙂
Why don't we start with the definition? An Eastern sin?
You might disagree with me now, but sooner or later, it’s going to click. You'll see exactly what I mean.
I really don't have the energy to sit here and write a novel just to explain the concept of Christ's cross to you.
If you’re actually interested in this, just head straight to the beginning of the Catechism and give it a read...
You just wrote a whole lot of nonsense here.
You really don't know the first thing about Christ or the Catholic faith, yet you're still out here trying to start an argument.
It’s perfectly fine if you don't subscribe to our faith, but please, don't try to change it.

Why don't you start by defining "original sin"?

Look, based on what Jesus actually taught, that concept doesn't hold water. If this whole "original sin" thing were real, why would Jesus say children are the ones who will enter the Kingdom? It makes zero sense—how can you enter heaven carrying sin? 🙄The logic just isn't there. You're believing in something that flat-out contradicts everything Jesus himself said.

Harold Reyes3 said:

Why don't you start by defining "original sin"?

Look, based on what Jesus actually taught, that concept doesn't hold water. If this whole "original sin" thing were real, why would Jesus say children are the ones who will enter the Kingdom? It makes zero sense—how can you enter heaven carrying sin? 🙄The logic just isn't there. You're believing in something that flat-out contradicts everything Jesus himself said.

He said, "The Kingdom of Heaven belongs to such as these children."
Interpret that however you want.
You're missing the point—everything changes with Christ's death. 🙄 From the moment Christ died on the cross, we no longer need to offer sacrifices for sin because He was the final sacrifice.
Through baptism, that original sin is washed away from children, just as Christ himself was baptized in the Jordan.
That’s why His death and the act of baptism clear the slate for them.
Any sins committed after birth have to be confessed and avoided to receive forgiveness.
If you don't believe in the forgiveness of sins, you'll just keep on sinning.
I'm not talking about you specifically, but believers in general.
There is plenty of logic here; you just aren't seeing it. 🤷

He said "the Kingdom of Heaven belongs to such as these"
Interpret that however you want
If you don't get it, you're missing how everything changes through Christ's death
That's why His sacrifice wipes away original sin for all His children
It makes perfect sense—you just aren't seeing it.

Can you see the flaw in that logic? First off, Jesus said that while He was walking the earth, not after the Crucifixion

Second, if it’s actually true that His death erases original sin, then what about the people who lived before Him? What are they doing now? Are they playing marbles with Satan in hell because they weren't lucky enough to be born after the Crucifixion to be saved? Come on, give me a break. The logic just doesn't hold up 👍

Harold Reyes3 said:

He said "the Kingdom of Heaven belongs to such as these"
Interpret that however you want
If you don't get it, you're missing how everything changes through Christ's death
That's why His sacrifice wipes away original sin for all His children
It makes perfect sense—you just aren't seeing it.

Can you see the flaw in that logic? First off, Jesus said that while He was walking the earth, not after the Crucifixion

Second, if it’s actually true that His death erases original sin, then what about the people who lived before Him? What are they doing now? Are they playing marbles with Satan in hell because they weren't lucky enough to be born after the Crucifixion to be saved? Come on, give me a break. The logic just doesn't hold up 👍

Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever—and that goes for everyone who lived before Him, too.
As far as I know, Jesus said those things while He was still walking this earth. He understood His mission perfectly, and He knew exactly why the Father had sent Him here.
In the Garden of Gethsemane, He was sweating blood. He knew exactly what was coming, and because He was both God and man, He felt the full weight of that fear. 🤷
Do you think he actually knew why he came to this earth?
Do you happen to know what he said to the apostle who was trying to convince him not to accept the cross?
Did you know he said that everything written must come to pass?
Do you actually know anything about Christ ????????
I told you that I understand what... You just won't believe it!
I honestly don't get how you can jump into an argument like this when you clearly don't know the first thing about Christ. 🙏

Harold Reyes3 said:

Why don't you start by defining "original sin"?

Look, based on what Jesus actually taught, that concept doesn't hold water. If this whole "original sin" thing were real, why would Jesus say children are the ones who will enter the Kingdom? It makes zero sense—how can you enter heaven carrying sin? 🙄The logic just isn't there. You're believing in something that flat-out contradicts everything Jesus himself said.

Are we all just sitting here debating Matthew 18:3?
Because it says, "Truly, I tell you, unless you change and become like children, you will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

David Booth7 said:Are we all just sitting here debating Matthew 18:3?
Because it says, "Truly, I tell you, unless you change and become like children, you will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

Honestly, I haven't the slightest clue what we're even debating anymore. 😕
Honestly, I just don't know. Why? I'm just starting a discussion.
Don't lecture me. Clearly, you're the only one here who doesn't have a clue about the Catholic faith. 🤷

Linda Walker37 said:Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever—and that goes for everyone who lived before Him, too.
As far as I know, Jesus said those things while He was still walking this earth. He understood His mission perfectly, and He knew exactly why the Father had sent Him here.
In the Garden of Gethsemane, He was sweating blood. He knew exactly what was coming, and because He was both God and man, He felt the full weight of that fear. 🤷
Do you think he actually knew why he came to this earth?
Do you happen to know what he said to the apostle who was trying to convince him not to accept the cross?
Did you know he said that everything written must come to pass?
Do you actually know anything about Christ ????????
I told you that I understand what... You just won't believe it!
I honestly don't get how you can jump into an argument like this when you clearly don't know the first thing about Christ. 🙏

You didn't answer me. What about all those people living before Jesus? They died without ever knowing Him or hearing about His crucifixion. How were they supposed to believe in that to be saved?

It just doesn't make sense that believing in Jesus' crucifixion to carry our sins is the only way. When you think about how many billions of people lived long before Jesus, that whole belief system seems totally illogical.

Do you really know anything about Christ at all?

I do.

But I don't get how you jump into an argument when you clearly don't know a single thing about Christ.

Oh, I know plenty about Christ. Just answer the question: what happens to the people from before Jesus who couldn't believe in some crucifixion to be saved? Where is their way out? 🙄

Was Jesus the only one who was actually fully in tune with God's intentions?

Was Jesus the only one who was fully aware of God's intentions?

Not at all! Long before Muhammad or Jesus, there were about 124,000 Messengers of God throughout history. We know the names of some, but others remain unknown.

Harold Reyes3 said:

Was Jesus the only one who was fully aware of God's intentions?

Not at all! Long before Muhammad or Jesus, there were about 124,000 Messengers of God throughout history. We know the names of some, but others remain unknown.

So, if we don't know most of them, how can we even claim there were that many?

So how can we actually know there were that many?

Here’s the deal:

One time, Abu Dharr, a close friend of Muhammad, asked him, "Messenger of God, how many prophets have there been?" He answered, "One hundred and twenty-four thousand." Then he followed up with, "Messenger of God, how many messengers were among them?" To that, the answer was three hundred and thirteen.".

Think of it like this: prophets didn't receive books, but messengers did.

Harold Reyes3 said:

So how can we actually know there were that many?

Here’s the deal:

One time, Abu Dharr, a close friend of Muhammad, asked him, "Messenger of God, how many prophets have there been?" He answered, "One hundred and twenty-four thousand." Then he followed up with, "Messenger of God, how many messengers were among them?" To that, the answer was three hundred and thirteen.".

Think of it like this: prophets didn't receive books, but messengers did.

Does a list of those messengers actually exist somewhere? Or even just a heads-up on who the oldest ones were?

Harold Reyes3 said:You didn't answer me. What about all those people living before Jesus? They died without ever knowing Him or hearing about His crucifixion. How were they supposed to believe in that to be saved?

It just doesn't make sense that believing in Jesus' crucifixion to carry our sins is the only way. When you think about how many billions of people lived long before Jesus, that whole belief system seems totally illogical.

Do you really know anything about Christ at all?

I do.

But I don't get how you jump into an argument when you clearly don't know a single thing about Christ.

Oh, I know plenty about Christ. Just answer the question: what happens to the people from before Jesus who couldn't believe in some crucifixion to be saved? Where is their way out? 🙄

🙂
The souls of the righteous from the Old Testament were essentially in a state of "waiting," just biding their time until someone finally opened the gates of Heaven for them.
They were just waiting for the Resurrection, which ended up being even more intense than they ever expected.
Why do we say in our faith that He "descended into hell"? It’s because He went there to announce the resurrection to the souls waiting there. The righteous. Man, they were really waiting for him.
So, does that mean the souls of all those righteous people from both the Old and New Testaments who passed away before Jesus rose from the dead were essentially held captive by death until that moment?
They weren't redeemed, nor were they granted entry into Paradise.
There you go, I've replied to you!
I already gave you my answer earlier in the thread above... Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever!
I’m telling you again. You just don't believe it. But honestly, you don't even know Christ. If you actually understood who He was, you wouldn't even be asking questions like these.
It would only make sense if you actually knew the truth, but the problem is you don't even know it—and frankly, you don't seem to believe it either.
What else is on your mind?

Is there a list somewhere of all these prophets? Or maybe just a ranking of the oldest ones?

There isn't a complete list of every single prophet, just some of them.

It’s like looking at a family tree where some branches are missing. Adam was the very first, while Muhammad was the most recent. Jesus was the second to last Godly prophet.

Harold Reyes3 said:

Is there a list somewhere of all these prophets? Or maybe just a ranking of the oldest ones?

There isn't a complete list of every single prophet, just some of them.

It’s like looking at a family tree where some branches are missing. Adam was the very first, while Muhammad was the most recent. Jesus was the second to last Godly prophet.

If you look at it from a neutral perspective, Christianity and Islam are actually pretty similar

If you look at it objectively, Christianity and Islam are actually pretty similar.

The core reason they feel so alike is because they share the exact same source. Any differences you see? Those were just human tweaks along the way.

In Islam, we recognize Mary, Jesus, John the Baptist, Zechariah, Joseph, Jacob, Abraham, Moses, David, Solomon, Elijah, Aaron, Adam, Noah, Lot, Isaac, Ishmael, and more.

They are all Godly messengers and prophets.

God has always sent down one single faith. It’s just that after these Godly messengers passed away, people started slapping different names on it. For example, Judaism was named after Judah, one of Abraham's great-grandchildren. Christianity took shape after Jesus ascended, specifically through Paul's shift where he moved away from the old laws to establish the faith. Finally, in the Quran, God Himself chose the word Islam for the faith brought by Muhammad—but it's the same message preached by Abraham, Moses, and Jesus. Jesus said he was leaving peace for the world; "Islam" comes from the root word *selam*, which means peace. If you compare what the Godly messengers did in the Bible to what is practiced in Islam, you'll see it's really just one and the same religion.

1. Jesus washed before prayer and prostrated himself before God, just like Muslims do.

2. Jesus greeted his friends with "Peace be with you," which is exactly how we say "Assalamu Alaikum."

3. Jesus didn't eat pork or drink alcohol, and neither do we.

4. Jesus fasted, and we fast too.

5. Jesus refers to God as Allah, just as Muslims, Christians, and Jews do in the Middle East.

6. According to the Bible, women are meant to cover their heads, which is exactly what Muslim women do.

7. Jesus practiced ablution, and so do Muslims.

8. The Bible forbids images and idols of humans or animals, and Islam has the exact same ban. No difference there.

9. Interest is forbidden in the Bible, just as it is forbidden in Islam.

10. Jesus wore a beard, much like Muslims do.

11. Jesus believed in one God, and we Muslims believe in one God.

All these points prove that the laws in the Bible and the Quran come from the very same source.

Harold Reyes3 said:

If you look at it objectively, Christianity and Islam are actually pretty similar.

The core reason they feel so alike is because they share the exact same source. Any differences you see? Those were just human tweaks along the way.

In Islam, we recognize Mary, Jesus, John the Baptist, Zechariah, Joseph, Jacob, Abraham, Moses, David, Solomon, Elijah, Aaron, Adam, Noah, Lot, Isaac, Ishmael, and more.

They are all Godly messengers and prophets.

God has always sent down one single faith. It’s just that after these Godly messengers passed away, people started slapping different names on it. For example, Judaism was named after Judah, one of Abraham's great-grandchildren. Christianity took shape after Jesus ascended, specifically through Paul's shift where he moved away from the old laws to establish the faith. Finally, in the Quran, God Himself chose the word Islam for the faith brought by Muhammad—but it's the same message preached by Abraham, Moses, and Jesus. Jesus said he was leaving peace for the world; "Islam" comes from the root word *selam*, which means peace. If you compare what the Godly messengers did in the Bible to what is practiced in Islam, you'll see it's really just one and the same religion.

1. Jesus washed before prayer and prostrated himself before God, just like Muslims do.

2. Jesus greeted his friends with "Peace be with you," which is exactly how we say "Assalamu Alaikum."

3. Jesus didn't eat pork or drink alcohol, and neither do we.

4. Jesus fasted, and we fast too.

5. Jesus refers to God as Allah, just as Muslims, Christians, and Jews do in the Middle East.

6. According to the Bible, women are meant to cover their heads, which is exactly what Muslim women do.

7. Jesus practiced ablution, and so do Muslims.

8. The Bible forbids images and idols of humans or animals, and Islam has the exact same ban. No difference there.

9. Interest is forbidden in the Bible, just as it is forbidden in Islam.

10. Jesus wore a beard, much like Muslims do.

11. Jesus believed in one God, and we Muslims believe in one God.

All these points prove that the laws in the Bible and the Quran come from the very same source.

Nice comparison there. But honestly, there are some massive, irreconcilable differences that tear that unity apart. That gap isn't going anywhere. The only real move is to just accept reality and leave the final call to God.

That’s an interesting comparison. But let's be real—there are fundamental differences here that create a massive divide. It's a gap that isn't going away anytime soon. The only way forward is to face reality and leave the final judgment to God.

Those divides could vanish overnight if Christians were actually more devoted to Jesus and His teachings, rather than following people who twisted His message.

Let me give you a clear example. If Christians had rejected Paul, they would have had every reason to. He showed up after Jesus ascended and completely distorted what Jesus taught. Even though Jesus Himself said the old laws shouldn't be tossed aside, Paul went ahead and changed things, and Christians just followed his lead. Instead of sticking to what Jesus actually said, they chased after questionable figures and became followers of Paul instead of Jesus. Meanwhile, we Muslims are currently the only true followers of Jesus' actual teachings on Earth. If anyone is skeptical, just look at those 11 points above; it makes it crystal clear why we are the ones holding onto the true path.

If Christians did the same thing—if they just followed Jesus and cut Paul out—they would be almost indistinguishable from Muslims. You wouldn't even be able to tell who was who.

Just imagine if we had done that! If we Muslims had rejected Muhammad's teachings and started following some shady guy after Muhammad passed away, where would that have left us? 🙄It would be a complete disaster.

To stay on the right track, you have to stick with God's messenger. They are sent to explain the faith and show the way, not some random mortal with a suspicious doctrine. That’s exactly why we Muslims hold so tightly to our faith, the Quran, and the messenger Muhammad. We’ve maintained this unbroken connection for over 1,400 years. But you Christians lost touch with Jesus the moment you started following Paul and his warped versions of things. I’m certain that if Jesus appeared on Earth today, He wouldn't recognize modern Christianity at all. To Him, it would feel like a foreign country.

The Bible says Jesus prayed to God by falling face-down on the ground. Imagine what He’d think seeing how people pray in a church today—sitting in chairs, reading little poems, and singing loudly. Compare that to Muslims, who bow to God in lines exactly the way Jesus did. Where do you think He’d feel more at home? In a mosque among Muslims, or in a church sitting in a pew?
Look at Muslim women; they cover themselves just like His mother Mary and the other women of that era did. Then look at grandmas in churches singing songs written by who-knows-who. It’s obvious He’d be with the Muslims. After all, Muhammad says that when Jesus returns to Earth in the future, He will be with the Muslims, praying alongside them, and eventually laid to rest near Muhammad's grave.

Harold Reyes3 said:

That’s an interesting comparison. But let's be real—there are fundamental differences here that create a massive divide. It's a gap that isn't going away anytime soon. The only way forward is to face reality and leave the final judgment to God.

Those divides could vanish overnight if Christians were actually more devoted to Jesus and His teachings, rather than following people who twisted His message.

Let me give you a clear example. If Christians had rejected Paul, they would have had every reason to. He showed up after Jesus ascended and completely distorted what Jesus taught. Even though Jesus Himself said the old laws shouldn't be tossed aside, Paul went ahead and changed things, and Christians just followed his lead. Instead of sticking to what Jesus actually said, they chased after questionable figures and became followers of Paul instead of Jesus. Meanwhile, we Muslims are currently the only true followers of Jesus' actual teachings on Earth. If anyone is skeptical, just look at those 11 points above; it makes it crystal clear why we are the ones holding onto the true path.

If Christians did the same thing—if they just followed Jesus and cut Paul out—they would be almost indistinguishable from Muslims. You wouldn't even be able to tell who was who.

Just imagine if we had done that! If we Muslims had rejected Muhammad's teachings and started following some shady guy after Muhammad passed away, where would that have left us? 🙄It would be a complete disaster.

To stay on the right track, you have to stick with God's messenger. They are sent to explain the faith and show the way, not some random mortal with a suspicious doctrine. That’s exactly why we Muslims hold so tightly to our faith, the Quran, and the messenger Muhammad. We’ve maintained this unbroken connection for over 1,400 years. But you Christians lost touch with Jesus the moment you started following Paul and his warped versions of things. I’m certain that if Jesus appeared on Earth today, He wouldn't recognize modern Christianity at all. To Him, it would feel like a foreign country.

The Bible says Jesus prayed to God by falling face-down on the ground. Imagine what He’d think seeing how people pray in a church today—sitting in chairs, reading little poems, and singing loudly. Compare that to Muslims, who bow to God in lines exactly the way Jesus did. Where do you think He’d feel more at home? In a mosque among Muslims, or in a church sitting in a pew?
Look at Muslim women; they cover themselves just like His mother Mary and the other women of that era did. Then look at grandmas in churches singing songs written by who-knows-who. It’s obvious He’d be with the Muslims. After all, Muhammad says that when Jesus returns to Earth in the future, He will be with the Muslims, praying alongside them, and eventually laid to rest near Muhammad's grave.

So you're telling me Muhammad is officially done with this life, but Jesus is coming back just to die all over again? Cool.