CheckEmoji Community · the emoji forum
🏠 Home 🆕 What's new ❓ Unanswered 🔥 Popular 📡 RSS Members 👥 0 online
log in · register
Home › Society › Philosophy › Forgiveness: Is it a sign of weakness or strength?

Forgiveness: Is it a sign of weakness or strength?

Started by William Williams27 · · 👁 7 views · 118 replies

📡 Subscribe to replies

Participants William Williams27Harold Adams5mistybisonboldmaker8mistyscout2Hannah Thomas13stormycobra90Brenda Cook4Jonathan Brooks8darkfalcon47David Miller15briskgull4Taylor Campbell4Sean Cook2hollowrider23silentridge8crimsonhound80rustymaker5swiftcobra15William Gonzalez3wiredcobra22Andrew Richardson8Kyle Nelson2amberviper39 …
William Gonzalez3 William Gonzalez3 Regular
276 messages
joined May 2009
#61 ·
Galatea said:revenge requires courage and hatred, while forgiveness demands understanding and love

I suppose we shouldn't go looking for love and understanding, nor should we try to force them upon others.
People just aren't really capable of it, I think.
If they can't even begin to understand themselves—how could they ever hope to understand someone else?
And honestly, most people struggle to accept love, too.
Let alone give it.
So, why bother searching for it?
Why demand it from ourselves or from those around us, when such a thing is essentially asking for the impossible?
It just leads to inevitable disappointment, I guess.

Galatea said:revenge leads to destruction, while forgiveness leads to creation

Destruction and creation are, in many ways, two sides of the same coin.
They're really just different ways of describing change, I think.
Perhaps revenge is its own kind of lesson—if the one delivering it manages to explain it clearly, then maybe that's where the cycle ends. But if they don't, well, the whole thing just repeats itself.
The lessons really need to be made clear.

Galatea said:a world ruled by revenge...

...is the very world we find ourselves living in.
What do you think actually governs this world?
Is it forgiveness?
Taylor Campbell4 Taylor Campbell4 Regular
369 messages
joined Jul 2009
#62 ·
Taylor Campbell4 said:



People who lack the strength to seek revenge certainly don't have the strength to offer forgiveness.
They simply withdraw and let hatred consume them—effectively destroying themselves in the process.





Only those with the capacity for vengeance possess the potential (though it isn't mandatory) to find the strength to forgive.





True forgiveness is reserved for the greatest among us—those who aren't afraid:
fear and forgiveness are fundamentally incompatible.



So, you’ve finished that book, haven't you? Does it touch upon any specific fears? I mean—what exactly is someone afraid of that would prevent them from forgiving?

Does the author mention anything regarding what we call an apology? To my mind, offering a sincere apology requires its own kind of courage—it takes real grit.
mistybison mistybison Regular
495 messages
joined Aug 2008
#63 ·
Pomona said:Society doesn't forgive crimes; forgiveness is a personal matter. If individuals fail to rise to that level, their destructive energy simply breeds new offenses, which they then justify by claiming victimhood.

It is human nature to crave vengeance—to want those who caused us pain to experience that same suffering. As I mentioned earlier, true forgiveness is something that develops spontaneously within a person; it follows its own natural course and requires time and distance. Forced forgiveness—which seems to be what is being discussed here (viewing forgiveness merely as a choice one can make but chooses not to)—doesn't just fail to eliminate destructive energy. In my view, suppressing emotions actually intensifies that energy, causing it to resurface later in an even more corrupted state. With genuine forgiveness, we face our emotions and support ourselves. With forced forgiveness, we simply sweep everything under the rug to maintain a facade of peace, until eventually, all those unaddressed feelings explode, causing harm to ourselves and everyone around us.

The real issue is how to break that cycle.

Achieving that through simple forgiveness is difficult. If it were easy, we wouldn't need laws and sentencing. 😉
Take a simple example: a man hits his wife. She forgives him. The next time, he hits her again. By forgiving him, she hasn't protected herself from the abuser, nor has she changed his behavior. In this situation, I believe a legal penalty would be far more appropriate than forgiveness. The woman has many options: she can forgive him endlessly until the day she kills him, she can leave and never forgive him, she can leave and still forgive him, she can become cynical toward all men because of one injustice, or she can move on without carrying bitterness to others. Regardless of whether he is forgiven, if he doesn't face consequences, he remains an abuser who will likely target another woman.

It’s strange that you call that strength and courage, especially without any boundaries. I assume the executioner is being ironic...

Knowing the executioner—I don't think so. 😁
I believe the other user explained it better than I did. 😉
mistybison mistybison Regular
495 messages
joined Aug 2008
#64 ·
goranbo said:Essentially, offering an apology requires a certain level of courage—it takes actual strength.

To offer an apology, one simply needs to set aside their ego. 😁 😉
crimsonhound80 crimsonhound80 Active Member
175 messages
joined Mar 2008
#65 ·
crimsonhound80 said:Well, if forgiveness isn't what's required, then what on earth is?

PS: And how exactly do you picture these incarnations working? Are you suggesting people wander through hundreds of thousands of lifetimes just doing bad things, while others—like you, most likely—stay exclusively on the "good side" the whole way through?

Look! I’m a Scorpio, and let me tell you—we don't do "forgiveness" very well. We feel much better when we get our revenge; otherwise, we end up dealing with some pretty intense neurotic episodes. 🙄

As for reincarnation, you're the one who insisted it was such a central point in this whole discussion.

About fifteen years ago, I went through most of the "chants" by A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada and read his book, "Self-knowledge."
"It's actually quite fascinating how truly GREAT men like him are so tolerant—they don't force their religious beliefs or philosophies on anyone—which is a far cry from you FOLLOWERS, who seem completely merciless toward anyone who doesn't subscribe to your specific teachings.

Listen, when you're in a war and your friend is slaughtered, your grandmother is violated, and your parents are dragged off to a concentration camp... it's a little harder to just "FORGIVE," okay? You might actually feel better—both in this life and whatever comes next (if there even is one)—if you just take your revenge.
I was raised Catholic, sure, but I’ve always found the teachings of the Old Testament more compelling, where God is depicted as a relentless avenger rather than some pushover who forgives everything.👍
wiredcobra22 wiredcobra22 Newcomer
1 message
joined Oct 2006
#66 ·
Forgiveness isn't always an option. If a group of people forgives everything unconditionally, they risk being constantly victimized by others, regardless of whether it's a minority or a majority. Not everyone possesses a noble heart; in reality, most do not.
Christianity teaches us to forgive and show kindness to others, yet it also instructs us to be kind to ourselves. One must learn how to balance these two sides, which are often in conflict...

My personal approach is this: forgive once, stay silent the second time, and bite back on the third. Even then, I find that decision is often far too mild...
Harold Adams5 Harold Adams5 Active Member
102 messages
joined Feb 2008
#67 ·
normall said:Listen! I'm a Scorpio, and we don't exactly have a reputation for being forgiving.

😁
..honestly, revenge just isn't my style. It's too much effort.
I'd rather just walk away...
My go-to move? Total silence or just cutting them out entirely.
Harold Adams5 Harold Adams5 Active Member
102 messages
joined Feb 2008
#68 ·
Harold Adams5 said:An 'apology' really just requires you to drop the ego for once. 😁 😉

😕
Now you've got me thinking.
Is someone who rarely apologizes actually a good person because they have nothing to apologize for, or are they just too stuck up?😁
Taylor Campbell4 Taylor Campbell4 Regular
369 messages
joined Jul 2009
#69 ·
It’s just human nature—when someone hurts you, there's this deep-seated thirst for revenge, a desire to see them feel the exact same sting they caused you. I’ve mentioned before that true forgiveness isn't a choice you force; it’s something that grows organically within a person once enough time has passed. Forcing a sense of forgiveness—which seems to be what we're debating here, treating it like a conscious decision one simply refuses to make—doesn't actually clear out that destructive energy. In my experience, suppressing it only makes it fester, eventually resurfacing in an even more toxic, distorted way. With genuine forgiveness, you confront your emotions and find self-support. But when you try to force it just to maintain a superficial peace, you're essentially sweeping everything under the rug—until those unaddressed feelings explode and cause damage to everyone involved.

I have to say, I find it a bit reductive when people label any goal or aspiration as being "forced" or "suppressed," as if they're arguing for some kind of absolute spontaneity. It feels like whenever a mechanism or a specific mindset is described, people dismiss it by saying it isn't "spontaneous." Honestly, "spontaneity" is often just a convenient excuse to procrastinate indefinitely—I know from my own life that's how it works for me.

On the other hand, we frequently talk about the process of "equipping ourselves"—working through things mentally so we can find the inner strength and willpower to act differently—to eventually reach that moment of what you might call spontaneous forgiveness.

So, in my view, the way you're perceiving this is fundamentally incorrect.

Furthermore, there shouldn't necessarily be a requirement for time to pass. We only demand that distance because we struggle with our own weaknesses.
Some people are able to face their feelings or gain perspective the moment something happens—and in those cases, there isn't even anything left to "forgive" in the traditional sense.

@pikso, we've already touched on the idea that forgiving someone doesn't mean submitting to their will. Hypothetically, you could forgive someone and still see them sent to prison. That would be a rational, measured action rather than an act of vengeance. Of course, that's a blunt example, given that many people currently in the American penal system shouldn't be there in the first place.
Harold Adams5 Harold Adams5 Active Member
102 messages
joined Feb 2008
#70 ·
Taylor Campbell4
If someone pulls a stunt that requires an apology
they’re either an idiot or just plain malicious.
Who actually wants that kind of person in their life?
They don't deserve forgiveness; they need to be cut out of your circle entirely.
Harold Adams5 Harold Adams5 Active Member
102 messages
joined Feb 2008
#71 ·
...if you're actually aiming for peace, then there's really only one way to go about it.
Sean Cook2 Sean Cook2 Member
46 messages
joined Oct 2006
#72 ·
Sarah Miller said:I suppose Adriatic put it more clearly than I did—not that I’d want to repeat myself. 😉

He didn't explain anything. He just listed a bunch of talking points.
Andrew Richardson8 Andrew Richardson8 Member
19 messages
joined Nov 2004
#73 ·
hikingenthusiast said:👍
Forgiving someone else takes real grit—but specifically, it’s an internal battle. To truly forgive, you first have to find a way to forgive yourself for the act of letting go. You basically have to break down your own ego and that stubborn refusal to move on.
Once you start, every subsequent act of forgiveness gets a little easier because you've essentially "trained" your soul. Still, let's be honest: there wouldn't be any point if you didn't get that massive sense of relief as a reward afterward.

Now that is some high-level thinking right there! I'd just add that forgiving someone doesn't mean you're excusing their behavior. It’s not like saying, "No big deal, whatever you did to me doesn't matter." It matters. If someone breaks the law, they’re going to face the consequences, and I'll personally make sure they do—but I can still forgive them. They simply don't hold power over me anymore. That is what true forgiveness looks like.
Taylor Campbell4 Taylor Campbell4 Regular
369 messages
joined Jul 2009
#74 ·
labellina said:Taylor Campbell4
If someone does something that requires forgiveness
they are either foolish or malicious
— and honestly, who needs that kind of company?
They don't deserve forgiveness; they should just be cut out of your life entirely

If we actually lived by that logic, humanity would have wiped itself out a long time ago. We’d all be gone by now if everyone just purged anyone who crossed them)

The biggest mistake you can make is choosing separation over connection.
In this debate, one side keeps failing to account for the fact that we are all interconnected—at whatever level you choose to view it. At the very least, we are all human, which means we are all brothers and sisters 🙂 ).
Taylor Campbell4 Taylor Campbell4 Regular
369 messages
joined Jul 2009
#75 ·
I honestly wonder if people actually stop to think—for instance, about how this all

Quincy:
.if you're truly seeking peace, and there's only one way to find it
(So, if I’m following correctly, a person pursues peace by simply removing someone they could have otherwise forgiven—just so things stay quiet)

and this part

Quincy:
Forgiveness requires strength—but specifically in this sense—you have to first forgive yourself for being willing to forgive, essentially breaking down your own ego and the resistance that prevents it.
Every subsequent act of forgiveness becomes easier because we've "learned" the process. However, none of it would be worth it if there wasn't a "reward" in the form of emotional relief afterward.
interpersonal relationships, whether they even align, and so on.

************************************************** *******

I just don't get how people can keep making the same claims when the opposing views have been so clearly explained and argued from every possible angle. 🙂

For example, several of us have already pointed out—myself included, quite a few times—that forgiving someone doesn't mean letting them continue to mistreat you, physically abuse you, or whatever else. Can we please just move past this? Let's settle this once and for all so we can finally discuss whether it's a weakness or not. Come on, let's get on with it. 🙂
Taylor Campbell4 Taylor Campbell4 Regular
369 messages
joined Jul 2009
#76 ·
So, you see how I start out by holding a grudge, only to end up forgiving you all by the final paragraph 😉 Who says forgiveness requires a long waiting period?
It's clear I'm an expert at letting things go—so feel free to pick my brain if you have questions...

Let me elaborate a bit, just to settle things peacefully if there's any need for it. Suppose someone offends you—whether your perception is spot on or not, or whether they actually did you wrong—and you decide to cut them out of your life entirely (for instance, 🙂 😢, in extreme cases, an American might burn down a neighbor's house just to force them to move back to their home state)

Essentially, we have this old friend—let's not talk about specific ethnic tensions here—who is now distant from us, far from our hearts and eyes, because we don't associate with her anymore; "she's dead to us."
And so, we think we are at peace.
But we aren't truly at peace, because that friend can never really be "dead" to us; she remains a part of who we are, in whatever way you choose to see it. Even if we try to suppress the memory of her, it lingers within us. And that lingering conflict will continue to drain our energy and hold us back until we finally resolve it through forgiveness.
swiftcobra15 swiftcobra15 Regular
305 messages
joined Dec 2002
#77 ·
Swiftcobra15 said:You read that book...



I read it quite a long time ago and I can't seem to track it down now—I might have lent it to a friend. To be honest, I've gone through so many books since then that the details tend to blur together.



In my view, fear is the most common, and often the most overwhelming, emotion we experience.


I find myself fearing both real threats and things I've simply imagined.

When someone has been hurt, their primary instinct is usually the fear that the pain will happen all over again.
We naturally start seeing the person who hurt us—whether they meant to or not—as a potential threat or an enemy.

A lot of people worry that forgiving someone is a sign of weakness.

If you're struggling with that choice, it just means you aren't truly ready to forgive yet.
Sean Cook2 Sean Cook2 Member
46 messages
joined Oct 2006
#78 ·
swiftcobra15 said:It’s just human nature—when someone hurts you, there’s this deep-seated hunger for retribution, a desire to see them feel the exact same pain they caused.
Pure forgiveness rarely achieves that. If it did, we wouldn't bother with our entire legal system and the concept of punishment. 😉
Take a simple, grim example: a man hits his wife. She forgives him. Next time, he hits her even harder. By forgiving, she hasn't actually protected herself from an abuser, nor has she changed who he is. In my view, punishment—not forgiveness—is far more appropriate here. A woman facing this has endless paths: she can forgive him indefinitely until she eventually snaps and kills him; she can walk away without ever forgiving; she can leave and forgive; she can become cynical toward all men because of one injustice; or she can move on and let go of the bitterness entirely. But if he isn't held accountable, he remains an abuser, ready to target another woman—regardless of whether his previous offense was "forgiven" or not.

Most of us in this debate seem to agree that forgiveness helps restore internal balance—that sense of security and control over one's own life after something unforgivable happens. However, many people, much like you, argue that forgiveness is essentially giving someone permission to keep abusing you. They conclude that the only real answer is punishment, revenge, or simply walking away from any positive expectations of that person—and people in general.

How would that apply to your example? Neither revenge, nor forgiveness, nor even punishment serves as a perfect solution here, though there is arguably more room for forgiveness than for vendettas. Given recent headlines, it's clear that our justice system and social services often nudge women toward a type of forgiveness that actually enables their own abuse. (I mean, imagine a judge telling a victim of a domestic abuser, "Just go home and make him dinner instead of dragging this through the courts!" while the perpetrator is likely to kill her soon.) The message being sent to women is either to endure the violence or to take justice into their own hands. And if they choose the latter, they end up facing a legal nightmare because they didn't "know how to forgive and endure."

So where does forgiveness fit in? A woman absolutely needs help escaping a dangerous situation and finding a way to live normally afterward—which requires processing, accepting, and reconciling what happened. In other words, forgiving. Of course, she can live a full life if no one stops a determined vigilante from seeking vengeance against the person who left them (and perhaps their friends). And then who is left to seek justice for the family of a murdered woman? (Talking about revenge is easy; executing it is a messy, complicated business...)

The domestic abusers and killers we read about in the news were often victims themselves—raised in broken homes dominated by violence and alcoholism. They are simply repeating the patterns they learned because no one taught them anything else. If society punishes them, we’re just temporarily removing them from the equation; in prison, they’ll likely just sit there nursing their grudges, lacking the psychiatric help that would have benefited everyone had it been provided before the crime. That’s how you actually focus on prevention rather than just fighting fires.

So, even in this scenario—though no one is advocating for "empty" forgiveness—understanding and forgiveness are better options, as unconvincing or weak as that might sound compared to the alternative of revenge.
rustymaker5 rustymaker5 Regular
352 messages
joined Mar 2008
#79 ·
The thing about revenge is that it’s best illustrated by looking back at history, where you see these entire families, tribes, or even whole nations dragging out blood feuds for generations until they don't even remember what started the fight in the first place... it just becomes this hollow tradition they cling to. And honestly, what is the actual point there? What kind of relief or benefit does anyone actually get from a vendetta when the original grievance has been forgotten by everyone living, yet we still find ourselves stuck in the cycle because our grandfathers, fathers, and uncles were all too busy fighting to let it go, so now it's just our turn...
Harold Adams5 Harold Adams5 Active Member
102 messages
joined Feb 2008
#80 ·
goranbo said:In that scenario, humanity would have wiped itself out a long time ago. We'd have all just eliminated each other from our immediate vicinity multiple times over.

The biggest sin here is separation—being disconnected.
One side of this argument keeps failing to account for one simple fact: at some level, we are all part of the same whole. At the very least, we’re all human beings, which makes us brothers and sisters. 🙂

Actually, it's quite the opposite.
We survived because of those differences.😛
We aren't clones.
Everyone on this planet is unique.
And honestly, anyone should be free to choose their own circle.
Some people wisely distance themselves from aggressors early on.👍 Maybe there isn't even anything to forgive, so they just move on and leave the "eliminated" threat in the rearview mirror. (That's actually what I advocate for!)
Others wait too long. And they deal with the fallout.
The only real sin I see here is the one committed against oneself.
Because being naive enough to forgive someone repeatedly until they finally destroy you? That's where the mistake lies.

You must log in or register to reply here.

Log in Register

🔗 Similar threads