Forgiveness: Is it a sign of weakness or strength?

arna said:The best way to understand revenge is to look at history. You see families, tribes, even entire nations carrying grudges for generations. Eventually, they don't even remember what started it; it just becomes some hollow tradition. What’s the actual point? What kind of relief or benefit does this vengeance provide when the original cause has been forgotten by everyone involved? But hey, our grandfathers fought, our fathers fought, so we guess we have to keep fighting too.

You're looking at this way too broadly... you're drifting into generalizations here. 😉
I'm talking about a "one-on-one" conflict. The everyday stuff. Like when someone constantly pushes you around or picks on you until you just feel pathetic.

crimsonhound80 said:Look, when you lose a friend in combat, see your grandmother violated, or watch your parents dragged off to a camp, forgiveness becomes an incredibly heavy burden. You might find peace in this life or the next only if you choose to walk away from revenge.

But who is the target? In these scenarios, the actual perpetrators are often untouchable, so retaliation shifts toward whoever is within reach—which usually means innocent people or even those who were originally victimized. Eventually, those same innocent bystanders strike back at other innocents, creating a vicious cycle of violence that is nearly impossible to break. Since revenge rarely reaches the ones truly deserving of punishment, it only breeds more bitterness and a sense of total helplessness in the face of injustice.

labellina said:Is someone who rarely apologizes just a good person who feels there's nothing to say, or are they just being prideful?😁

Perhaps we had a misunderstanding. 😉 When a person realizes they've made a mistake, the only thing that would stop them from apologizing to the person who deserves it is pure ego. I don't see any other reason for it. 🤔

Taylor Campbell4 said:On our side, we often talk about the process of self-preparation—working through things mentally so we can find the inner strength and willpower to act differently. It’s how we reach that moment of spontaneous forgiveness if it's meant to happen.

In my view, you are mistaken in thinking that's not the case.

Furthermore, there really shouldn't be any required waiting period. We only feel the need for distance because we are being weak.
Someone can face their feelings or maintain perspective immediately after an event occurs, and in those instances, they might not even feel the need to forgive at all.

Are you suggesting that I don't have the right to choose not to forgive? Or do you believe I must do it simply because it's prescribed—because someone thinks it will make me a "better" person, contribute to a "perfect" world, or bring "inner peace," regardless of whether I actually share those values? 😉
My experience follows the pattern I described. I accept that your perspective is entirely different. 🙂

Pomona said:If we simply punish them, we are just temporarily isolating them from everyone else. In prison, they usually just continue nursing those vengeful thoughts without receiving the psychiatric support that would actually benefit everyone—support they really should have received long before the crime if society truly wanted to focus on prevention rather than just fighting fires.

I am not a huge believer in the idea that psychiatric "help" can mold every personality into the "good and exemplary citizen" our society demands. Humans are made of both light and dark; we cannot force someone to be nothing but light. That is a utopia, even if some (like our friend Taylor Campbell4) believe there are ways for a person to transcend their nature and become an angel.😉

mistybison said:But who actually gets hit? In situations like this—and we see this all the time in history—the people truly responsible for the crimes are almost always untouchable. So, revenge ends up targeting whoever is actually within reach, which usually means innocent bystanders or even the very people the initial crime was committed against. Then, those same innocent folks end up retaliating against other innocents, and you just get caught in this endless, vicious cycle of violence that’s nearly impossible to break. On top of that, justice rarely finds the people who actually deserve it, which I think just fuels more resentment because people feel completely powerless to actually hold the guilty parties accountable...

Let me lay it out for you!

Look, I’m just not the kind of person who carries misplaced rage—you know, getting mad at one thing or one person and then taking it out on some random third party. That’s just not how my brain works.
I don't harbor hatred for an entire nation just because certain individuals were raining down thousands of shells a day on civilians in Indianapolis. I’m just built differently, I guess; I can't bring myself to hate everyone or seek vengeance against people who had nothing to do with it.

But believe me, there are specific individuals I’d love to run into in a dark alleyway somewhere today
and I’d feel pretty damn satisfied 😎

sanjana said:Would you mind if I shared something? I'm not interested. Should I offer forgiveness, or do you believe I shouldn't even have that choice—that's the question. I have to. Do I do it because it’s required—because someone decided this is how I become a "better" person, or that it’s the key to building some sort of "perfect" world? Or perhaps they claim it brings "inner peace" and somehow benefits the person I’m supposedly forgiving? 😉
Things work exactly as I described on my end. I’m happy to concede that your experience might be something else entirely. 🙂

🙂 Well, I see this debate a bit differently. I didn't get the impression that I was imposing my views on anyone's private life—I was simply discussing things from a more impersonal, general perspective.
Look, what you choose to do in your personal life is your business—I have no interest in policing that. As for all those questions about whether you're allowed to or if you should... my answer is a firm yes. As far as I'm concerned, you're free to do whatever you want. 🙂

Indianapolis—we were discussing how one thing can be seen as a weakness while its counterpart is a strength. We talked about how one requires sheer willpower, the virtue of forgiveness, and the various mechanisms behind how that all actually unfolds and influences us.
Whether it’s you or anyone else—honestly, people can act however they please—that isn't a valid reason to just brush off these arguments. Just because you might lack the desire to forgive someone in a certain situation, for instance, doesn't mean the logic fails. Try to keep the debate separate from how you're feeling about the topic right now; otherwise, it just ends up skewing the whole discussion.
I see this whole debate through a different lens—I honestly don't recall telling anyone they actually had to take action. I was merely making points about things like the importance of forgiveness, arguing various sides of the issue, but whether someone chooses to act on that or not... well, that’s really up to them. If I gave off the impression that I was pushing an agenda, that wasn't my intention.

To wrap things up—I was really just suggesting that forgiveness is generally a good thing—but if you took it differently, that’s entirely up to you.

I'm curious to see what you have to say about this—it’s certainly a layered topic.

It’s been ages since I last read her—I might have even lent my copy to someone—and honestly, after everything else I've picked up lately, I can't quite distinguish which specific ideas came from which book.
Fear is easily the most common human emotion—and usually the most intense one, too.

I find myself feeling quite anxious about both the genuine threats out there and the ones I tend to conjure up in my own head.
The main thing keeping an injured player up at night isn't just the pain—it's that nagging fear that they'll step back onto the field only to have it all happen again.
When someone hurts us—whether they meant to or not—our instinct is to view them as a threat or an enemy.
Many people worry that showing forgiveness is nothing more than an admission of weakness.
If I'm still stuck in this kind of dilemma—well, it just means I'm not ready to forgive yet.

Personally, I think it would be beneficial for us to dig a little deeper into this topic—though, if we're being honest, that investigation will probably take us the rest of our lives. 🙂

I agree that fear is the most fundamental emotion—it’s really the root from which all others spring. In the literature I tend to gravitate toward, there is a distinct difference between true emotion and what I’d call "glamour" or blindness. To me, that glamour is just an emotional illusion—a sort of sensory mirage.

It might be worth noting—and perhaps more important to this discussion—that there is a distinct difference between psychological fear and physical fear. Psychological fear is unhealthy, whereas physical fear is actually quite vital; it’s what saves your life. Physical fear is essentially that raw instinct—not just a feeling—that kicks in during moments of direct physical or mortal danger. In our modern world, we rarely find ourselves in those kinds of situations, but when we do, it's that survival mechanism that keeps us alive.

Regarding psychological fear—I have to disagree with you there—I’ve always felt it's largely manufactured. It’s an illusion, a kind of blindness. It is essentially a dread of things that haven't even happened yet. In my view, it serves only to stall us and set limits on our potential; it's the complete opposite of that old cliché about how a little bit of anxiety is "healthy" or helps boost performance.
I suspect those are just rationalizations. A person can tap into their true capacity much more effectively when they aren't weighed down by fear. It's frankly silly to suggest that fear is a necessary catalyst for excellence. This psychological dread mostly acts as a barrier, and personally, I don't see any benefit in it whatsoever. Tommy makes that point quite clearly.
I'm not sure if I've mentioned this to you before, but I have a fantastic article about fear—it draws a parallel between fear and the myth of Hercules and Medusa... The story is actually a symbolic take on overcoming one's fears.

@adriatic
To get back to the main topic:
Quincy:

Many fear that forgiving will reveal their weakness. If I am facing such a dilemma, it means I am not yet ready to forgive.

Could you (or perhaps someone else?) elaborate a bit on that first sentence?
For instance, what kind of weakness are we talking about? Is it the fear of being hurt again—that sense of vulnerability?
Perhaps it has something to do with guilt? Hypothetically speaking, if I act like a jerk toward someone simply because I haven't forgiven them, it might leave me with this internal conviction—this idea that I am in the right and they are in the wrong. I suppose I might worry that eventually forgiving them could shatter that illusion.

------------------------------------------

gornabo,
it isn’t about being weak,
it’s about self-respect.
to forgive someone who has deeply insulted you and caused you real pain,
especially when they aren't even asking for it,
isn't a noble gesture.
in fact, it's beneath any sense of dignity.
doing that—offering forgiveness—is basically telling them:
keep stepping on me, I don't matter.
And like Sanjana said, "we aren't angels."
Besides, religions always threaten us with Judgment Day,
which implies even God doesn't just hand out forgiveness; why would we think we're better than Him? 😬

"Lay down and die, don't bother praying"—as the old gravedigger used to say. 👍

Harold Adams5 said:Forgiving someone who truly cut you deep—it’s a delicate thing—is less about letting them off the hook and more about finally reclaiming your own peace.
Without him even bothering to ask for forgiveness—not that he ever really does—
It’s hardly a human act.
It’s beneath any shred of human dignity—really.
To do that—to actually forgive—would be essentially the same as saying:
Keep it coming—I’m still standing, somehow.
And then Sanjana goes— "we aren't angels"—as if that were some kind of revelation.

Quite the opposite. Back to square one—

Galatea said:Unlike hatred—which is relatively easy—forgiveness requires an incredibly intense, complex psychological deep dive. It demands a certain level of self-awareness first—a willingness to look inward and actually confront one's own capacity for good, or even love. Then, there is the matter of relativizing evil—effectively stripping it of its power and pushing it into the background. Ultimately, being able to forgive is less about the other person and more about the sheer scale of one's own character—and the strength of the ego.

sanjana said:Maybe we just weren't on the same page. 😉 When someone messes up and actually realizes it, the only thing stopping them from apologizing to the person they wronged is pure ego. There isn't any other reason for it. At least, I don't see one. 🤔

I'm with you on that. And honestly? I agree with everything else you wrote, too. 😉

Sean Cook2 said:Exactly the opposite. Let's go back to square one:

utopia😁
a poor, wounded man is expected to become perfect.
Go ahead, give me just one example—besides Jesus.🙄

goranbo said:I didn't feel like I was imposing my will on anyone's private life; rather, I was discussing this from an impersonal, general perspective.

The real question is whether such an "impersonal, general" level even exists regarding this topic (or any other). We are all simply sharing our personal views here, and in your case, those views are further reinforced by your specific spiritual beliefs, such as reincarnation.

To wrap things up, my intention was simply to suggest that forgiveness is a virtue, though you are free to interpret that differently.

As I mentioned earlier, what applies to one person doesn't necessarily apply to everyone. 😉 While you might find peace in always forgiving, others might actually feel better if they choose not to forgive.

Harold Adams5 said:utopia😁

wisdom
necessity

Harold Adams5 said:Give me just one example, besides Jesus.🙄

The existence of Jesus hasn't been proven. There are some excellent threads here on the forum demonstrating how the myth of Jesus was constructed from even older mythological traditions. Therefore, he doesn't qualify either. 😁 😉

Harold Adams5 said:I’m talking about those "one-on-one" clashes, you know, the everyday stuff... when someone’s constantly pushing you around or picking at you and you just end up feeling miserable...

Look, you have to realize that this whole sense of being pathetic, or pushed around, or judged... it all stems from within yourself. If you don't internalize it that way, then you aren't actually pathetic, or oppressed, or criticized... it just isn't happening. And if it isn't, then what would you even be seeking vengeance for? You get what I'm saying?...
Revenge is just one possible reaction to how you choose to interpret someone else's words or actions. But you always have the option to see things differently. It’s entirely up to you how you respond... 🙂
So, have you actually gone through with it yet? How did it leave you feeling afterward?

normall said:Look, believe me, I’d love to run into certain people in some dark alleyway today
and feel perfectly fine 😎

But would you really feel better, or is it just that hunger for revenge talking... making you think that way?

I remember watching this documentary where the parents of a murdered girl actually attended the execution of her killer over in the States. They truly believed it was the only way—that it was justice, a righteous retribution for the sheer agony and devastation he had forced upon them.
Once the sentence was carried out, they were stunned by the fact that there was no sense of relief, no satisfaction, no peace of mind at all... As time went on, they ended up seeing therapists... and to make a long story short, they eventually realized they had to forgive the man who was executed, and even ask him for forgiveness in their hearts for hating him so much, because only then could they finally start living again (they had another child that they basically neglected after the tragedy with their daughter).

Those things are horrific, obviously, but I’m afraid that seeking revenge doesn't actually lessen the horror... it just ends up poisoning the person chasing it. That kind of hatred just tightens your chest and turns you into some kind of misanthrope... And the worst part is, while you're suffering through that, the person you want revenge on is probably sleeping soundly, without giving a single thought to what they did.

rustymaker5 said:Have you already done the whole forgiveness thing? How did it feel afterward?

I haven't.
It’s just not my style.
I usually just walk away, ignore them, or kick them to the curb.
(Depends on who's stronger, I guess 😁 )

I'm all about prevention.😛
Basically, I prefer to handle things before the hatred even starts and before there's any need for forgiveness.

When animals hit that peak level of panic and fear, they usually react in one of three ways:
-they play dead,
-they fight back,
-or they run for it.
Honestly, people aren't much different. It all just comes down to who you're up against and what kind of tools you've got in your arsenal.

labellina said:When animals feel cornered or terrified, they generally react in three ways:
-playing dead
-fighting back
-running away
Humans operate similarly, depending on the threat and our own capabilities.

That is an interesting observation. My cat falls squarely into the fighting category, regardless of who the opponent is. It is quite a sight to behold. 😲

labellina said:not really.
it's just not how I roll.
if things go south, I’m out, I ignore it, or I just shut it down
(depends on who's holding the cards, I guess... 😁 )

I’m all about prevention.😛
basically, I try to nip the problem in the bud before the hatred starts and before anyone even needs to ask for forgiveness

So there you have it. That's the path you chose. And honestly, I bet you sleep pretty soundly at night because of it.
I’ll admit, I can be vindictive too, but I don't see much point in holding a grudge against someone who might not have even meant to hurt me in the first place... people can be so clumsy with their words and act so impulsively without any actual malice behind it, you know?