Posts by stormybadger8

Timothy Castillo6 said:Missed the race. 😢 Should've been our win. 🙂
How many pit stops did Kamui Kobayashi take versus Sergio Pérez? What about the tire choice?
And what about their "best" strategy?

Both went for one stop.😳
Just different tactics. I haven't checked the stats, but since Kamui Kobayashi pitted on lap 24, he was clearly on the alternate strategy (reds first, then yellows).
Probably just how they played it, though it still feels weird that they went that route.🤷

The big question is: was Sergio Pérez the only one running that yellow tire for about 40 laps before switching to reds at the end?🤷

Looks like it actually turned out to be the perfect call.

neonfox65 said:Why on earth are you guys calling Fernando Alonso "Zalonso"?

I actually liked this 😁

Look, there’s one weird thing here:
Kimi is in that same Lotus and his pace just falls off a cliff because of tire degradation—it’s unreal. If I remember right, it happens after about 30 laps.
But here’s the kicker: Vettel’s tires held up way better during this race, which would suggest Red Bull actually handles rubber better than Lotus.🤔
Sure, maybe the difference comes down to that famous hole on the Red Bull for brake and wheel cooling that wasn't there this time, but I doubt that's the whole story.
Vettel was setting fastest laps in Monaco on these exact same types of tires even after about 40 laps.

Alonso, Vettel, and Button are all struggling with tire wear, and we all know they're some of the best out there when it comes to managing rubber.😕>

Something is fundamentally broken here. It's not like Ferrari is a tire-killer, and they definitely aren't compared to the Lotus, so I honestly have no clue what's going on.
And yeah, it might seem small, but a 2-second gap per lap when the tires are identically aged? That's huge.😵
As for the Red Bull and Vettel situation, it's a complete mystery.
During practice, Vettel did 21 laps on the red tires with a full fuel load, putting up consistent 1:19s. He pulled into the pits and his times didn't even drop; he actually went faster on that last lap rather than slower.

Then, suddenly, his tires completely give up on lap 16.😕
I don't get what the deal is.

It looks to me like everyone gets the same tires, but:
3 different sets of yellows (one extra fast, one extra durable, one middle of the road)
3 different sets of reds (one extra fast, one extra durable, one middle of the road)

And all this chaos is just a result of whoever uses which set first.

That’s the only explanation that makes sense, because we've seen this kind of nonsense before.
Drivers who are blistering fast in practice, then suddenly that speed vanishes into thin air during qualifying.
Or drivers who show incredible durability in practice but zero pace, then suddenly nail a crazy fast lap in qualifying out of nowhere.

To me, it feels like Bernie Ecclestone’s chemistry at work. It’s not that someone is being handed an advantage, it's just that literally nobody knows which set is which.
Then, if someone happens to nail the right set at the right moment, boom—sudden dominant victory.

So, I’d say they basically have six completely different sets of tires for every single race.😳

Roger Wright94 said:That’s what I was getting at earlier. Since they didn't jump out on their own sooner, they absolutely had to shadow Lewis, every single one of them. No exceptions!

Could be possible, and it makes sense, but I’m not buying it. Honestly, I think they were mostly just terrified of each other (Alonso and Vettel).

Besides, what do you mean "stalling"? This isn't Abu Dhabi or Monaco. Here, being just 0.2 or 0.3 seconds faster per lap is plenty, and overtaking is basically just a tech issue.

I'd say it wasn't even about "shadowing" so much as pure focus on each other. They're the main title contenders, after all, so it's hardly a shock that the goal is to finish ahead of your teammate.

And making someone actually stall isn't easy, but slowing them down just enough to let the other guy slip ahead? That's doable.
It's not like you can just brake on someone in the DRS zone, but ruining their pace for a single lap is more than enough to build a gap so the teammate finishes first.

shadowtinker29 said:Red Bull Racing was actually slower than Lotus on the straights even with DRS active. How on earth did you think Vettel would pass Grosjean? Same goes for Alonso.

If Vettel had pitted 20 or more laps earlier, you can forget about those super softs because the only thing he’d have left was a set with over ten laps on them from qualifying, so that Red Bull tire shredder would've given up long before the end.

No matter how you slice the laps or the strategy, both of them would've ended up back on track behind Grosjean. Hamilton only managed to pull out just a second on him.

Vettel went through Q1 on yellows, Q2 on reds with an in-out run, and in Q3 he did two in-out runs—not sure if that was two different sets or just the same one twice.

Basically, Vettel either had a brand new set of softs or two sets with three laps on them.☕
And don't forget, the temperature plummeted again toward the end of the race, which is exactly why the tires on the Sauber suddenly started working.
That car literally wakes up and goes crazy when the track temp drops.

And honestly, they could've overtaken him easily on fresh softs while Grosjean was struggling on 30-lap-old rubber.
They'd have pulled up right behind him, so they wouldn't have burned through their tires in just two or three laps.☕

They definitely would've been faster across the board since Grosjean was running roughly 1:19 at that point, while Hamilton was doing 1:17.
If a two-second gap per lap isn't enough at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, then I don't know what is—unless you're planning to overtake outside the damn DRS zone.☕
And if Hamilton could pass Alonso and Vettel with that 2-second margin, then sure, these guys could have gotten past Grosjean. Or is this little space alien actually better than Alonso and Vettel combined?

shadowtinker29 said:You don't really see how much that bad start hurt him until you realize he was stuck behind Stay, which cost Grosjean yesterday. As soon as the driver from Scotland pitted on lap 13, Romain picked up a second or two per lap, but those first thirteen laps meant he dropped nearly fifteen seconds compared to Hamilton.

Lewis wasn't actually fighting Vettel or Alonso for the win yesterday—he was fighting Grosjean.

Look, if Vettel had hit the pits somewhere between laps 43 and 51 (that's when the gap to Hamilton started growing in lap 44), I'm not sure Hamilton wouldn't have ended up battling both him and Alonso for the top spot.

In that scenario, all three would've likely piled into the pits at once, making it a long shot for Grosjean and Perez to even sniff a podium.
With that kind of strategy, we would've seen a total dogfight between Alonso, Vettel, and Hamilton.😉

Instead, we got this DRS/Goodyear nonsense.
Vettel clocked a 1:15.752 on the last lap.
fast Grosjean's best was 1:17.264 back on lap 57.😳

And get this: Vettel wasn't faster than Alonso or Hamilton during the race (at least, that's what we know).
That means Alonso could've been caught if he'd gone for fresh rubber, and obviously, Hamilton dialed back his pace once he saw no one was breathing down his neck.

So, it’s not quite black and white.
The big mess was caused by the strategists, that fear of Massa (Red Bull) and Webber (Ferrari), and everyone just waiting on each other.
If Vettel had pitted, you can bet Ferrari would've followed suit (and vice versa if Alonso went in), and damn right Hamilton would've shadowed them too.

Roger Wright94 said:I’m looking at Alonso's pit stop on lap 51.
If he’d pitted then, he likely would've come out right behind Lewis Hamilton, probably ahead of Romain Grosjean. Honestly, even if Grosjean had been in front, he wouldn't have been much of an issue—easy enough to overtake.

Total mistake.
They’ll try to argue the tires still had decent grip back then. Please. That was 20 laps from the end; that excuse is dead on arrival.
Everyone knows how these tires work—once they fall off a cliff, they fall off hard (we're talking 3, 4, or 5 seconds per lap). The people making decisions there should know that better than I do.
You just can't gamble on the assumption that these tires will hold up for another 20 laps after already grinding through 30 or 40.

And honestly, Red Bull Racing makes zero sense here either. Vettel's tires completely gave up on lap 16 (went red), even though he’d run a 21-lap race simulation on those exact same tires with a full fuel load during practice.
I mean, it should have been blindingly obvious they’d crack early due to the heat.🙄
Beyond that, Red Bull Racing's strategy is just baffling. They struggle to make the softs last even 16 laps, and then their plan is to go for a stint where they intend to hammer away for 54 laps on the mediums.😵
Ferrari went with a 19/51 split, which actually sounds somewhat sane.

The folks over at Red Bull Racing clearly missed the mark. They should have gone for a 34-39 lap stint on mediums and then switched to the reds.
Especially since, if I remember qualifying correctly, they still had a fresh set of reds left.🤔
Sure, they probably wouldn't have snatched the win, but they definitely wouldn't have dropped four spots.😳

Here’s how it would have played out:
Alonso pits on lap 51—comes out behind Lewis Hamilton, Mark Webber, and Romain Grosjean, somewhere around Felipe Massa, and almost certainly ahead of Nico Rosberg.
Same deal with Vettel (though with his slightly worse pit stop, he might've ended up behind Rosberg, which would've been a straight-up disaster).
After that, the stops happened like this:
Webber on lap 52, Massa on lap 58.

It looks to me like that was the core issue. It seems they got caught up trying to make sure Webber could hold up Alonso (so they waited), while Massa was busy holding up Vettel (so Red Bull Racing waited for him to pit too).😳
Then once Webber finally pitted, they waited for Vettel to go first, hoping Massa would hold him up on track so Alonso could get his shot.

It's not like Ferrari is stupid; they just played cat and mouse with themselves and ended up losing it for everyone involved.

darkmarlin16 said:How many laps did Grosjean and Perez run, versus how many Alonso and Vettel did after the tire swap?

Grosjean did 49, Alonso 51, and Vettel 47 on yellows.
Perez did 40 on yellows and 30 on softs during his first stint. 🤔

stormybadger8 said:1. The Reddit F1 Super League is an invite-only competition featuring the top eight performers from last season's various forum racing series. If someone can't make the cut, the next person in line based on last year's standings steps in as a reserve. Next year's qualifying spots are detailed in rulebook section 15. Official results and rankings are posted by the league director in this thread, and the moderator will pin them to the first page for easy access while everyone else posts their picks and plays the Super League here.

2. We run this thing by having competitors face off head-to-head in triple round-robin duels, following a predetermined schedule drawn at random. During the first and second rounds of the Super League, everyone sets their own offers. In the third round, things get more organized—offers are set based on merit according to the standings at the end of round two, meaning the leaders get an easier path through the final stretch.

3. Here’s how the system works:
The person setting the offer has until midnight on Tuesday of the race week to submit five pairs of matchups. There are no restrictions on which pairs you pick, but you don't actually pick the drivers. Instead, your opponent does that by bolding their five favorites—basically marking them with a 1 or a 2 to indicate who they think will finish higher in the pair. This has to be done no later than 10 minutes before Saturday's qualifying starts. Any drivers they don't mark automatically become the favorites for the person receiving the offer.

4. Once the race is over, players earn these bonus points:
Winning a duel where no drivers DNF – 3 points
Winning a duel where the loser DNFs – 2 points
Winning a duel where the loser fails to start – 1 point
A draw where both drivers DNF or fail to start – 1 point each

5. After totaling those bonus points for each pairing, we hand out the main points:
Winning against an opponent's offer - 3 points
Winning your own offer - 2 points
A draw – 1 point each

6. To figure out the final League standings, we use these tiebreakers:
a) Whoever has more main points wins.
b) If tied there, the person with the better bonus point differential wins.
c) Still tied? The person with more main points from their head-to-head matchups wins.
d) If it's still a wash, look at the bonus point differential from those head-to-head matches.
e) If we're still stuck, the person with the most total wins takes it.
f) Tied again? More individual pair wins breaks the tie.
g) Last resort: whoever has more total bonus points wins.

7. You can actually send your offer as soon as the previous race wraps up. The official deadline is Tuesday at midnight before the race week, but honestly, we aren't strict about it—if you post at 12:01 AM on Wednesday, it still counts. However, if you miss the deadline entirely, your last submitted offer from the League stays active, and your opponent gets to respond to that. If they don't respond to the old one and a new one pops up in the meantime, they have to answer the new one. If someone misses the window in the first two rounds when there isn't an old offer yet, or if they're so late their opponent can't respond, the opponent gets the max payout: 3 main points and 15 bonus points. Also, if the responder is logged in or posting on Reddit between the late offer and qualifying but ignores it, the offer-setter gets the max points—provided the offer was posted at least an hour before the response deadline.

8. If a competitor fails to submit a new entry or response for three consecutive races, they’ll be automatically disqualified from the rest of the competition, provided there's a reserve competitor available to step into the super league. If a reserve steps in, they take over the remaining schedule left by the disqualified person, but they don't get to inherit any of those points.

9. If someone misses the deadline for a response or just doesn't reply to an offer, their opponent gets the maximum haul: 2 main points and 15 secondary points.
If a participant sends a fake response during the third round—or any other way that looks like they're clearly trying to rig things for someone else—both they and the beneficiary will face penalties. These will be decided by the tournament directors and the Reddit F1 moderators through a majority vote.

10. Once an entry or response is sent, it’s final. No deleting, no editing, no "oops, let me fix that." Breaking this rule means handing your opponent the maximum points. If you submit an incomplete entry with fewer than five pairs, you can add to it until your opponent responds; if you don't, your opponent gets the max secondary points for the missing slots. If you send more than five pairs, we only care about the first five—no corrections allowed after that.

11. Competitors can agree to swap home status for any reason during the first round. If they do, the order swaps automatically in the second round so everyone gets a turn hosting. After the second round, the home/away setup is locked in. Also, you can't mess with the pairing schedule once the tournament starts.

12. You have to post your predictions using the exact username you registered with. The only exception is if an admin changes it. If you're a banned user, you can still play by submitting your entry via your banned account; a moderator will then manually move it to the thread. If you don't follow this process, you're out.

13. Race results are based on what the FIA announces immediately after the race on TV or the first unofficial uncorrected results on the official website. We aren't looking at any later corrections from the FIA. When determining DNFs, we go by those initial FIA announcements specifying who dropped out. Per FIA rules, a driver is considered to have retired if they complete less than 90% of the race distance, and the race length is whatever the FIA decides via their standard or extraordinary rulings.

14. You can't change your entry just because the FIA or a team made a call that helps or hurts your bet. Same goes if an FIA decision screws over your opponent after you've picked your top five favorites. If you already know about an FIA or team decision before you submit, you better account for it. This specifically applies to drivers officially announced as not racing; you can't pick them. If you do, you'll face sanctions, including giving the win and max points to your opponent.

15. Next year's F1 Super League registration order:
15. Next year's F1 Super League registration order:
1. F1 Super League champion
2. F1 Championship champion
3. F1 Tournament 1 winner
4. F1 Tournament 2 winner
5. Accuracy Trophy winner - overall
6. F1 Championship runner-up
7. F1 Super League runner-up
8. F1 Betting house winner
9. F1 Tournament 1 finalist
10. F1 Tournament 2 finalist
11. 3rd place in F1 Championship
12. Accuracy Trophy winner - championship
13. 3rd place in F1 Super League
14. 3rd place in F1 Tournament 1
15. 3rd place in F1 Tournament 2
16. Accuracy Trophy winner - tournament
17. F1 Championship Team Champion (better side)
18. 4th place in F1 Championship
19. 4th place in F1 Tournament 1
20. 4th place in F1 Tournament 2
21. Accuracy Trophy runner-up - overall
22. F1 Championship Team Champion (worse side)
23. 5th place in F1 Championship
24. 5th place in F1 Tournament 1
25. 5th place in F1 Tournament 2
The better teammate is whoever scored more points.
Whoever finishes dead last in the F1 Super League loses 5 spots in next year's draft for every competition they placed in this season. The guy finishing second to last loses 3 spots in their highest-ranking competition from this year.

16. These rules kick in once they're posted in the Super League thread designated for rules and results. We might tweak things later via official amendments, but only if it's absolutely necessary to keep the competition running smoothly.
If some weird situation pops up during the season that isn't covered by these rules, a special committee made up of all the admins and moderators of this subforum will make the call.

Patagonia didn't send an offer or a response for three races in a row, so based on Rule 8, they’re disqualified. Their pairs are taking over for Terry Carter2.

stormybadger8 said:1. stormybadger8
2. Ferstar
3. MAXYM
4. maminho
5. Patagonija
6. Paskaneman
7. Pangloss
8. Sheldon

1. reserve - Gilberth
2. reserve - rosi
3. reserve - WayOut
4. reserve - appalachia
5. reserve - Bjesomar_
6. reserve - Kimi#1


Obviously, as per usual, anyone actually wanting to play in the F1 Super League 2012 needs to sign up.

Reserves won't be considered either if people drop out or if we don't have enough candidates.

Deadline to sign up is March 5, 2012.

As sign-ups roll in, I'll highlight the players in blue right here in this post.

I'm not even sure how this works by the rules if Terry Carter2 decides he doesn't want to play.🤷

Max, what actually happens if none of the backup drivers want to step up?
And what about the people sitting on the list ahead of Terry Carter2 who didn't even bother to sign up for the Super League?

It feels like there’s a lot left unsaid here. Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if someone's playing games, especially since those penalties for finishing last or second-to-last next season are hanging over everyone's heads.
This season isn't even that intense. Since Patagonia has zero points and the guy sitting in second-to-last isn't exactly racking up much either, catching up is going to be easy. No stress.

I honestly don't care whether that first reserve on the roster is forced to race or not.🤷

darkmarlin16 - Pangloss 15-0
Silence on the offer.
darkmarlin16 - Pangloss 2-0

Patagonia - Jessica Ramos12 3-11
Button - Hamilton 0-3
Schumacher - Rosberg 0-2
di Resta - Raikkonen 0-3
Maldonado - Ricciardo 0-3
Perez - Kobayashi 3-0
Patagonia - Jessica Ramos12 0-3

ruggedfox28 - Christian Williams61 7-6
Ricciardo - Vergne 3-0
Maldonado - Grosjean 3-0
de la Rosa - Karthikeyan 1-1
Button - Hamilton 0-3
Rosberg - Schumacher 0-2
ruggedfox28 - Christian Williams61 2-0

Rosa1-1 TBF1D - Edward Howard2 4-9
Nico Rosberg - Michael Schumacher 0-2
Heikki Kovalainen - Vitaly Petrov 0-3
Jean-Éric Vergne - Daniel Ricciardo 3-0
Jenson Button - Lewis Hamilton 0-3
Narain Karthikeyan - Pedro de la Rosa1-1
Rosa1-1 TBF1D - Edward Howard2 0-3

Go ahead and check them, I don't have much time.
Also, if anyone wants to swap roles for Europe News and UK News, let me know.

Or maybe the results are just running late.
Standings, podiums, and all that other junk should arrive right before Germany.

Roger Wright94 said:The only real window was that first lap right after Lewis Hamilton's second pit stop.

But by the second lap on those fresh tires during the third stint, Lewis Hamilton is setting the fastest lap and cutting the Net distance down to about 10 seconds. If there were any doubts—or even a shred of hope—before, it becomes crystal clear right then that nobody is passing Lewis Hamilton.
That's what I was saying.

Now, regarding the supersoft which would have been a legit option for 15-20 laps, the question is: were there any fresh ones left (meaning actually usable for chasing and overtaking)?
I doubt it.

That’s exactly what would happen if we actually trusted our "expert" analysts on the internet.🤣
The gap was Fernando Alonso vs Sebastian Vettel at roughly 3 seconds, and then Sebastian Vettel vs Lewis Hamilton at about 10-11 seconds.
At that moment, Lewis Hamilton was actually about 14 seconds behind Fernando Alonso. These two clearly don't get that the gap shown on screen isn't between the leader and whoever happens to be in 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc.☕

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre...ce-history.pdf

Take a look at the situation from lap 50 (when Lewis Hamilton was in the pits) onwards.😳
It wasn't until lap 56 that the gap to Fernando Alonso dropped to 10 seconds.☕

ruggedfox28 said:..how certain situations can be viewed from whatever angle suits someone best... 🤣 😁

Look, I’m not looking for a fight here, but why can't we just say Vettel played it smarter than Alonso? He knew he couldn't match him. By trying to fight back, Alonso was basically just risking a total meltdown and losing points for both of them—which is exactly what almost happened when Alonso tried to hold his ground...

..though even that "resistance" looked more like a wounded kitten struggling because he had zero chance once those tires were completely trashed. That’s why you could argue Alonso's move was actually "stupider" than Vettel's; he didn't have a prayer, so all he really did was risk losing everything for nothing.

Why are you even wasting your breath on this kind of nonsense?🤷

Red Bull actually held their own at the end, while Ferrari clearly had the pace compared to them.

I mean, I don't know, but realistically, Alonso could have cruised to second if they hadn't botched the strategy—who knows, maybe even a win was on the table. But even then, would Vettel have managed third? Even if he hadn't pitted early, I'm not sure he could have kept Romain Grosjean or Sergio Perez from jumping him.

Red Bull had a massive top-speed issue and struggled big time to overtake anyone in front. If they ended up stuck behind someone after the pit stops, I doubt they had the guts to pass.

So, in a perfect scenario for Vettel:
Lewis Hamilton 25, Alonso 18, Vettel 15
And in the worst case for Vettel:
Alonso 25, Hamilton 18, Romain Grosjean 15, Sergio Perez 12, Vettel 10.
It's hard to say how many points Red Bull saved by pitting when they did; maybe as many as 15.😳

Still, their strategy was pretty stupid, though nowhere near as brainless as Ferrari's.

But the award for "Master Strategists" definitely goes to Jenson Button's side of the garage.🙄
Get into Q3 on the hard tires, drive through Q3 just to settle for 10th, start the race on those hards, and then pit at the exact same time as the guys who started on softs.
Honestly, I haven't seen any tactics stupider than that.
I literally have no clue what they were thinking or what they were trying to pull.😕

As for Alonso, there was this one joke he made before the race:
He said he was worried his Ferrari mechanics wouldn't want to change his tires if his Spanish buddies scored a goal against the Italians.🤣
Who knows, maybe that was actually the problem.😬 🤣

Jason Campbell70 said:One wannabe champ has been exposed, and there's still one more waiting in the wings. ☕

Oh, I am just thrilled you finally caught your little "champion" red-handed. 🤣
By the way, Ferrari's tactics were absolute genius. 🙏
Not that my guys were much better🤦, but at least they didn't embarrass themselves quite so badly on track. ☕

Whatever. Given how badly Lojzek got wrecked, I'm staying in a good mood and skipping the rest of this thread.

Michael Lee4 said:I was pretty pissed that Plato didn't get the start...

I basically made a point of not watching.🙂
I literally passed out the second I saw he wasn't there. Man, that guy is so entertaining it’s actually maddening.🤣

Roger Wright94 said:Well, that's how every car ought to be set up.
To me, it looks like Vettel was on something. He didn't just stumble upon one "perfect lap"—he was cranking them out left and right.
Still, Webber is down 0.6s, which is huge.
Not sure how much those SuperSoft tires have been chewed up, or if anyone’s going to run into restrictions because of tire usage.
It's 2012, anything goes. Usually, the championship leaders win, but these two behind them have a real shot. Though, Lewis Hamilton definitely needs this win more than anyone.

I'm actually a bit surprised—he's terrible in the speed trap, yet somehow he's way faster in Sector 3, which is where the speed trap even is.
Takaj is basically cutting that gap to Webber in half during that third sector.
My only theory is that his car just handles corners better.🤷

Looks like Vettel prefers this Red Bull without the hole over the one with the EBD. 😍
Seems like someone's sitting there right now writing a thank-you note to Martin Witmarsh. 😁

Just grab ITV 4 and you can binge BTCC all day long from 12:30 to 5:00.😉

Brian Campbell36 said:My head is spinning with all this "legal vs illegal" nonsense at Red Bull Racing, and then Sebastian Vettel just walks away with the win anyway. 🤦

We saw through your little machine a long time ago. We’re basically tossing you guys scraps just to give you something to play with.😉

Now I can't wait to watch Nick Heidfeld, Ross Brawn, and Stefano Domenicali stay up all night arguing about what exactly makes the Red Bull Racing car illegal.😁

Expect one or two Red Bull Racing cars to be sidelined tomorrow.☕

:redbullmafija:😎🙂

Those idiots still haven't a clue what's going on.😍🤣

You’ll get it, don't sweat it. Honestly, even before qualifying, my chances against you with that offer were basically zero.
I actually had a new offer lined up, but I didn't send it over yesterday.😵
Man, I really screwed up by waiting through three practice sessions.🙂