Gary Patel said:I actually tried explaining this to you in another thread a few days ago—can't recall which one, honestly—but it’s clearly a lost cause! Look, it doesn't mean a thing if someone claims, "I'm a Christian," if they've completely turned their back on Christ's ways. To me, that person is effectively an atheist—they're basically in the same boat. And let's be real: historically speaking, everyone was religious in some capacity until people decided to stop believing in God. That's how we got atheists! Also... please don't try to tell me the US is a land of "wonderful religious altruists." Atheism, with all its messy consequences, dominates our media, schools, and political institutions. It shapes the American consciousness and captures the minds and souls of the vast majority—not everyone, obviously—especially the youth here in the States. It directs their very spirits. I'm telling you, it's the inevitable result of a slow drift toward atheism across the board: politically, spiritually, culturally, educationally—every single level.
I truly find it hard to believe that it's this difficult to find someone on this forum who doesn't think in extremes. If I express a negative opinion about the overtly secular lifestyle most people lead today, why does that automatically mean I have to hate or despise someone? I am a Christian, and I don't harbor hatred for anyone. If I criticize a phenomenon that I believe is taking a deadly toll on society, and someone takes offense, that's on them—but they have no right to generalize and paint my entire perspective with a broad brush.
So, in your view, insulting Christianity doesn't count as insulting Christians? Come on, please.
Look, I'm not talking about race; I'm talking about skin color. If an argument insults the idea of atheism, then it naturally insults atheists too, because it's clear those influenced by atheism are being hit by a negative concept. You can keep defending it if you want, but just don't. And as for Parsifal, I don't want any quote-posts.
For instance, Jacob really gets on my nerves with his threads where he mocks and insults theists—but then again, the theists who do the exact same thing irritate me just as much.
It seems like only Christians get insulted, but that's just not true. In the last few threads, it's been nothing but atheists getting targeted, yet no one is being penalized. This all comes down to individual character. You have both theists and atheists who are decent people and don't insult others or their beliefs, and then you have those who just do it. It bugs me that in these kinds of complaints, Christians are always portrayed as the sole victims, even though we can all see that atheists are attacked just as often. Neither side gets a pass, really. Sure, anyone can get a warning—myself included—but you're being way too subjective by thinking atheists get special treatment. If you look closely, theists get breaks too. Honestly, I think we're at a point where atheists are being insulted more frequently while no one gets punished.
Both sides deal with unfairness, but what saddens me more is seeing people think like Solomon 🙂. I'm not even as angry about the inconsistent enforcement of rules as I am saddened by this negative view of atheism—this habit of painting the entire American population in such a bad light. And then these people call themselves atheists just out of spite, simply because they're being difficult, whereas theists wouldn't act that way. I just don't get this blanket negativity toward atheists, vegetarians, Black people, homosexuals, or even theists coming from the atheist side.😢
I don't really mind the unfair banning—I mean, at the end of the day, this is just an online forum and I shouldn't let it get to me—but what actually bothers me is seeing so many people clinging to those old prejudices. It's wild that in the 21st century, we still have theists and atheists clashing like it's some ancient battlefield.😢
It’s the types like Jacob or Solomon who really take things way too far.
Honestly? I think the unfair bans and how the moderators handle things are actually the least of our problems here.
That simply isn't true. On this forum—and in general—there is a distinct difference between an *ad hominem* attack and criticizing specific stances, movements, or ideas. Just because someone critiques foolish atheist ideas doesn't mean they lack respect for atheists themselves. Regarding *ad hominem* violations, people used to hand out warnings and bans on the Religion forum left and right; by default, it was enough to just randomly click on any post and claim it was an *ad hominem*, followed immediately by a warning and a 10-point deduction. But according to your logic—every single one of you who criticized Christianity (in a negative or primitive way), their beliefs, their stances, or even the Christians themselves, should have been permanently banned long ago by moderators who are atheists and one Muslim. So, essentially—someone can still view atheist propositions as being a certain way or another, but I see no evidence that Solomon insulted atheists. There is a real issue with these overly sensitive atheists (not that they all are, mind you)—they act as though they are being victimized by things they do to others on a much harsher scale. They complained about Rebecca Rivera2, calling her an idiot; creationists were called morons; believers were labeled narrow-minded, irrational, blah blah blah... and strangely enough, I have never actually seen that happen in practice here on this forum. I live for the day I finally witness such treatment, so I view those "arguments" merely as a sign of weakness. Want an example? Here it is:
And regarding Parsifal, I don't want any copy-pasted posts.
I don't feel the need to quote his posts either. He mocked individual atheists and their views quite mercilessly. When he would offer criticisms, he was often mocked in an even more severe manner. At times, I even questioned atheists as to why they didn't respond to him, but they wisely distanced themselves, claiming that Parsifal had lost his mind or had no clue what he was talking about; I almost started thinking he was a fool (literally), though nobody dared to say so publicly. Evidence for this? Zero evidence. It simply became apparent that in the argumentation of some atheists, there is a weakness regarding judging and criticizing personalities, mocking, and condescension, which is a general grievance leveled against many atheists on this site. How many truly high-quality criticisms, analyses, or debates actually took place?
To be honest—I could publicly list the handles of atheists with whom one could engage in very constructive debate, individuals who possess actual knowledge and have something meaningful to contribute. However, I am certain that half of them, when they simply run out of things to say, resort to that old method. Some atheists quite honestly indulged in Parsifal's "nonsense" with sarcasm and cynicism, while they themselves were rather clumsy at explaining their own points briefly and concisely. This is the core problem with the stances he presents—in other words, they focused more on his personality than on his arguments. Having followed his writings from time to time, I reached this conclusion. And if he, for those reasons (and perhaps others), openly and publicly demonstrated the level at which certain atheists and their arguments operated—I believe he was entirely within his rights to do so. If I were in his shoes, I would have done the exact same thing. 🙂
For instance, I find Jacob quite irritating with his posts where he mocks and insults theists; however, I must admit that theists who act with that same malicious intent also get under my skin just as much.
You are absolutely right. It honestly irritates me just as much when theists go out of their way to insult atheists in any capacity. My only experience with people like that is that they always seem to be incredibly shallow and one-dimensional. In other words—
Let me make one thing crystal clear for all eternity: you cannot insult atheists on this platform without facing consequences. It is a fundamental rule here.As for the mentioned Jacob—he’s actually one of my favorites. He never quite managed to get the better of me or make me the butt of his jokes. I can't help but wonder, though... why do you think that is?
It appears that only Christians are being targeted here, which simply isn't the case. If you look at the last few threads, it’s actually the atheists who are being insulted, yet no one is being penalized for posting under a pseudonym.
No, that certainly wasn't my intention. If an atheist were in your shoes, they would likely jump straight to using those slangy little "arguments" to win the point.
And now you are lying quite shamelessly."...which is nothing more than pure primitivism in a discussion. Imagine if I were to stand before you right now and say this openly and publicly:"
You are being completely dishonest.. ☕
Why? Because you completely misinterpreted what I said. Where did I ever claim that only Christians were being insulted? However, since we are discussing them, I have reason to suspect they truly are being treated as second-class citizens on this forum, even if the leadership constantly tries to project a different image. My first argument? It is enough that someone who isn't Catholic—someone who doesn't agree with Catholic doctrines at all, yet deeply respects diverse beliefs and, above all, values honesty and justice (though, in all sincerity, I haven't always been that way myself, which is something I regret; I’ve certainly faced consequences for my own past mistakes)—is saying this. Furthermore, I am not from your country. Argument two? Every single Christian has noticed that Christians are placed in an unfavorable position on that Religion PDF, largely due to poor moderation, bias, and similar issues. Fine, I have nothing against the idea that there might be exceptions; let's assume that's the case. But when such a vast number of Christians—many of whom are highly educated, including non-Catholic Christians—all say the same thing, and you still choose to turn a deaf ear to them... well, man, then you clearly have a problem. Acont_ciko—a highly educated man—believes this. He has spoken out. House M.D. feels the same. Epignosis agrees as well (by the way, he is a Protestant). ruggedeagle10 agrees. (Ne)stabilni agrees. Brezovka agrees. My Orthodox brothers agree. Vavi agrees.
And I won't even bother listing them all. I just pulled these names straight from memory because I know exactly what they’ve been saying publicly regarding the situation on the PDF. There are plenty more where those came from. Can anyone tell me how...
We are not. Are they right? I would certainly love to see that. Honestly—
I would truly love that. If I happen to be mistaken, then I would much rather have everything exposed and debunked once and for all. However, the real issue is of an entirely different nature—it's about prejudice. We are dealing with massive biases being fostered by the moderators and the administration. My argument?
My personal favorite: In response to various complaints from many Catholics regarding the perceived disrespect toward Catholic values, beliefs, and sentiments, there has occasionally been this reply:
I don't think this is quite right. RedditDo you realize how utterly disgraceful it is when someone in a moderator position says something like that? It doesn't even matter which one it is. Do you truly grasp what such a statement reveals about a moderator—especially one who likely hasn't even spent real time participating in those discussions? I can't help but wonder, how would you personally feel if someone looked you in the eye and said:
That isn't quite right. RedditHow would one even begin to process such a feeling? What exactly would go through my mind, and what rights would I actually possess in that situation? Beyond that, what kind of rights might be available to me? Most importantly, if we find ourselves in this position, what is our course of action?
We are launching several new initiatives—steps that are truly constructive for the entire community. We are raising questions regarding the unconstructive moderation that has led to this current state of chaos. We are asking openly, and we are seeking real answers. But what exactly are we getting in return? What kind of response can we expect? Is this really a community that refuses to tolerate Christian worldviews? Do people holding Christian beliefs here not possess the same rights as any other member of this forum? Does everyone here look at whether you are a Christian first, only then deciding if your opinion deserves any respect?
You know, speaking as someone living in another country, I would truly love to have the answers to these questions myself. For now, acting as an academic citizen of my nation, I believe I am correct in thinking that such questions can only be met with a formal response designed to satisfy the public—just enough to keep them from getting agitated again—even if that isn't the practical reality. I harbor no hatred toward anyone, and thank God for that, as I am grateful I don't carry such feelings within me. However, I feel compelled to voice what I am saying, though I hesitate to do so for fear of being met with the bias and half-hearted fairness you seem to advocate. Regardless, I find you to be a very pleasant interlocutor; please decide for yourself whether I am being sincere here, or if I am simply resorting to those classic "arguments" found in a Religion PDF (hypocrite, liar, blah blah blah). 🙂
It all comes down to individual character. There are theists, atheists, and so on, who are decent people that don't offend others or their beliefs, and then there are those who do exactly that.
Of course. No one is claiming otherwise.