Posts by Peter Doyle2

jadetinker85 said:I don't feel like typing a novel here, but in short: I think the American education system is largely outdated, both in terms of tools and actual curriculum.
The simple fact that first graders are lugging around backpacks heavier than they are is frustrating enough. I really hope things change before my kid starts school, because I'm not going to let him struggle through that.

It feels like the curriculum doesn't align with how kids actually develop cognitively; if it did, we wouldn't be seeing such poor results on national standardized tests.

Since there are plenty of successful models out there globally, I hope we stop trying to reinvent the wheel and instead just adopt what works—like taking what the Finnish system does well and adapting it for the US. It would be ideal if we just translated their textbooks and resources for our teachers; that could be done for almost every subject.
My little one isn't old enough for school yet, but I hope that when the time comes, school is a place where he can actually thrive and grow, rather than just a source of frustration.

I pulled out a few key points from soks's post that I think are vital!

So, what is the biggest issue with our education system?
Sit down, listen, write, go home, memorize what was written. 🧐

It’s a completely, totally wrong approach 🙂 and, naturally, the root of all frustration.

Passive learning. It's bad. Learning should be active.

I am a Preschool educator, and even back in college, they constantly hammered this phrase into us: "children learn by doing."

The Preschool system works in a way where almost all frontal instruction has been phased out; there isn't that constant group gathering on the rug for storytime anymore.

The key is creating an engaging environment—meaning, we design tools for them to work with, spread them around the room, and then observe their play. We enrich those resources and add new content based on their specific interests. Children work freely, without being forced, in small groups, doing what they want to do.
They learn by doing.

And then, after six years of that approach in Preschool, those kids enter elementary school.
Where they MUST sit in a desk for 45 minutes, quietly, in silence, in the exact same spot.
Where they MUST do everything the rest of the class is doing.
Where they MUST listen to a teacher standing at the front of the room—purely lecture-based.

Is it just me, or does this seem like a massive disconnect that leads straight into frustration? 🤔

Let's go back to the beginning.
Children learn by doing.

Is it really that hard to mirror that in the school system? Is it truly that difficult to make teaching active? To give kids concrete problems, tasks, or projects—things where they actually participate and have to hunt for data themselves?
Presentations and reports are good things, but I get the feeling they still aren't being utilized to their full potential.
And for many things, you don't even need huge funding. You simply split the class into groups and let each group extract key information from a specific part of the day's lesson, then present it to the rest of the class. For example...

It's doable in almost any subject.

Sure, there are teachers who try to work this way. But I get the impression they are still deeeeeeply in the minority.

***

My child is still very young. Only 6 months old. But even now, I feel a sense of dread when I think about them having to lug a heavy backpack in six and a half years to an institution called "school" that is uninspiring and completely unsuited for active learning. Especially since they'll be coming from a different type of institution—Preschool—where things operate on a totally different principle. 🙄

So I'm wondering, what can we do as parents? Am I being naive if I think we can actually achieve something?
Maybe organize some kind of association? (Like how there's an organization like "Preschool for All" that fights for better conditions in Preschools.)
Should we send annoying emails to the Department of Education on a daily basis?
What?

I really wish I could do something, or at least try to change things... instead of taking the path of least resistance one day and telling my kid, "Just sit down and cram," when I know perfectly well that's a bad way to go, both as a parent and as an educator.🤷🙂

If they actually manage to kill off The Pirate Bay, I might just cancel my internet service altogether 🤣

James Patel20 said:Phew, I was actually worried you were going to sue me for copyright infringement. 😁

Me??
Actually, it should have been the other way around—I had your avatar as mine for nearly fifteen minutes straight. 🤣
Technically, it looks like I could sue anyone who uses my avatar now... though, wait, maybe Anonymous could sue me since I edited their picture. 🤔

🤷

Pretty good avatar, right? 😁

On topic: guys, seriously, we need to step it up a bit... I know it seems like a tiny thing, but Reddit is way more active than we realize. 😉

Hey, James Patel20, can I steal your avatar?
Or maybe you could just give me a hint about where you found it.
Anyway, consider this my immediate contribution to the 😁

edit: oh, wait, I see you've got it in your signature too :blento:

edit2: don't be lazy—you should probably just make your own avatar instead 😁

Personally, I’d ask The Akera if they could maybe point us toward the real news instead 👋
hey, Akera, listen to what the people are actually saying 😍

I wonder how long we can actually keep this thread alive before it eventually disappears into thin air? 😁

Well, I did 😁

But I'm still just sitting here wondering how—and why—that even happened 🙂

I wasn't quite sure where to ask this, but since this thread is pretty active and covers a lot of ground, I figured I'd just drop it here.

I've had my profile set to invisible mode for a long time now.
Then this morning, I realize I'm showing up as "active." I am 100% certain I haven't touched any of my privacy settings—I haven't messed with anything at all, except maybe updating my email address a couple of days ago.
So, wtf?!
Could this be some fallout from that recent hacking incident? : paranoia :

Charles Murphy6 said:Of course—theaters come to the schools too, including mine, and honestly, it’s a pretty great setup. They bring in all sorts of people, from various athletes to athletes with disabilities, and they even host these early educational workshops... you really have to get creative with it, though, because everything ultimately rests on the principal's decision.
I can't speak to all that nonsense you mentioned; we don't do any of that at my kid's school.
I do know of a few specific instances where kids excelled so much in sports or some other subject that they ended up grabbing a slice of pizza with their teacher or something similar. Naturally, the kid isn't footing the bill, of course.

It becomes an absolute nightmare if everyone just sits there like a bunch of statues during the parent-teacher meetings. At my daughter's school, we were blunt and unapologetic about it: we simply don't have the money!!!!!
So, look, they brought a theater troupe into the school—$5.00, and they also took them to the local public library for free theater performances—they do a little bit of everything, like collaborative creative workshops or even dance lessons during PE... just a bit of everything.
The only big outing this year was to Central Park, which was fine, I suppose. The kids always love it. We managed to power through the cost since it didn't involve lunch or those other expensive extras... and that's it for the entire semester.
Personally, I'd love for them to go more often, but all us parents are in the exact same boat, and since many of the teachers are parents themselves, they generally understand what our financial situation is like.

As for how they grade it, I haven't a clue... I just know that after the shows, they usually have the kids draw or discuss the performance, especially in second grade.
That’s something a teacher should probably answer; I honestly have no idea...

igzekli, I've actually asked this several times now, but I can't get a straight answer from any teacher... 🙂 🙂

It doesn't sit right with me, and I highly doubt it's actually part of the official curriculum... It’s fine to cover the material more deeply during class and then grade them on that, but giving a test based solely on what was seen at a movie theater, a play, or on a field trip—especially if it wasn't a mandatory school outing, or if there was an extra fee involved, or if not all kids could attend... 😳 it's just not going to fly!!

I thought that was more or less how it worked, since that’s how it functions in my own field—every preschool center develops its own annual plan where things like field trips, plays, and similar events are defined.

Let’s be clear, I am absolutely not against field trips, especially the educational ones > mentioned regarding visiting landmarks. Nor am I against prom, which only happens once or twice during an entire eleven or twelve-year schooling period anyway.
I’m not even opposed to theater performances, BUT there really isn't a need to drag kids to the theater several times a year!! Once or twice is plenty; the rest should be handled by having theater troupes come directly to the school. It’s definitely more cost-effective that way. Ultimately, most schools have drama clubs, so incorporating a few of their performances makes sense.
If it works in preschool, I don't see why it wouldn't work in K-12.

So, it seems like the McDonald's trips, movie outings, and all those frequent excursions are completely unnecessary and just pushed by certain individual schools. I guess the solution is to voice concerns at parent-teacher meetings or talk to the counselor. Okay, I'll make a note of that 🙂

I'm also wondering about the grading aspect. One user mentioned that a teacher gave students a test based on a movie they watched at the cinema. Is that actually allowed? What if I decide today or tomorrow that I don't want to—or for some reason can't—send my child to the movies? Will my kid end up with a bad grade? Is going to the theater a mandatory part of the curriculum, or is this just a loose interpretation of media literacy (meaning, couldn't they have just watched the content at school on a DVD)?

skorpionka, I hear you loud and clear.
As an educator myself, I deal with these vague mandates coming down from the top all the time—things that sound great in a boardroom but are totally impossible in our actual classrooms (overcrowded rooms, zero budget for supplies, and parents who aren't exactly eager to cooperate).
So, on one hand, we have administrators breathing down our necks to pull miracles out of thin air, and on the other, we have parents complaining about these rigid, fixed ideas.

It’s like they say—the rot starts at the top...

And most parents just don't see that.
They usually just jump to the conclusion that we—the teachers and aides—are the ones to blame for everything.

Anyway, I'm circling back to my own questions since nobody seems to have answered them yet... tell me, are you an elementary teacher or a high school instructor? Specifically, I'm wondering about this trend of constant field trips that parents are expected to foot the bill for... is that actually part of the official curriculum?
We've even heard stories here about teachers giving tests and grading kids based on whether they went to some trip or a movie outing. Is that even allowed?

Who can a parent actually complain to about stuff like this?
Is it just a rogue teacher's idea?
Is it the school's call (the counselors or the principal)?
Or is it coming straight from the Department of Education?

Who am I supposed to protest to if I don't want my kid constantly going to the movies or hitting up McDonald's? It feels completely unnecessary, and I certainly don't want to be funding it!

redmarlin3 said:The apocalypse, probably. That’s about it. 😁

Man, 2012 is right around the corner 😲 🤣
not really—it's just that those deleted profiles have always weirded me out, so this thread kind of brought it all back..

What actually has to happen—aside from the whole server crashing—for a user to get their profile deleted? Is that supposed to be a specific type of penalty, like some extreme version of a permanent ban, or what?

I mean, I’m just asking out of pure curiosity here. I don't have any desire to change my handle, let alone see a profile wiped, so don't worry about me.🙂

Wait, can you actually delete a profile? I always assumed that wasn't an option... I guess you have to submit a formal request or something?

This might be out of place, but it reminded me of something I’ve always wondered about and just didn't know where to ask 😁
Basically, sometimes when I'm scrolling through a thread, I'll run into a post where the author has "no nickname"—it's just text in the standard post font rather than a clickable link, and the post count says n/a. I can't quite remember which specific threads I saw this in to dig up the links for you guys... though I do recall one of those "names" was Enigma (and no, I don't mean Enigma)

So, I guess I'm wondering, what actually is that? Is it a deleted account? Or maybe someone requested it? :confused:

EDIT: Okay, I found an example:http://www.forum.us/showpost.php?p=506098&postcount=29

Nancy Cruz3 said:Just a quick reminder—we’re talking about teachers in elementary schools.

Yeah, I'm still waiting. 🙂 I guess I'd like an elementary school teacher—since we’ve had a few join this thread since this topic started—to weigh in on my questions. 🙂

I guess I’d just be boring until someone actually notices me🙂

There were some teachers posting about this topic earlier... please, tell us more😉

Peter Doyle2 said:Well, now that the original poster's issue has been sorted out, I’d like to restate my questions—mostly directed toward elementary school teachers:

What is this growing trend where kids seem to have more and more "field trips" every single year that require extra fees?
Are all these excursions actually mandated by the Department of Education's curriculum and programming?
Does the official curriculum even include testing or grading based on the "content" covered during these trips?

And honestly, where does the idea come from to take kids to big cities just to eat at McDonald's😕 instead of providing packed lunches? Can't the school just waive the meal cost for those specific days when the kids are away and won't be eating at the cafeteria—especially since, in the lower grades, almost every student relies on school meals?

Well, now that the original poster's issue has been sorted out, I’d like to restate my questions—mostly directed toward elementary school teachers:

What is this growing trend where kids seem to have more and more "field trips" every single year that require extra fees?
Are all these excursions actually mandated by the Department of Education's curriculum and programming?
Does the official curriculum even include testing or grading based on the "content" covered during these trips?

And honestly, where does the idea come from to take kids to big cities just to eat at McDonald's😕 instead of providing packed lunches? Can't the school just waive the meal cost for those specific days when the kids are away and won't be eating at the cafeteria—especially since, in the lower grades, almost every student relies on school meals?

hiddendriver34, since you mentioned teenagers and evenings, I'm assuming we're talking about high school.

And I doubt they'll be handed a quiz or an essay the very next day about whatever play you all went to see.

The issue here—and I’m throwing some shade at the elementary school teachers and the whole district in general—is that parents are getting increasingly frustrated with how often kids are being taken on trips. It feels constant (and just to reiterate, one of my kid's classmates had two field trips in a single week), whether they are necessary or not, and the parents are the ones footing the bill.
Then, on top of everything else, they end up being taken to McDonald's 🤷

Back when we were in high school, our teachers certainly didn't take us to McDonald's after a trip to the theater. 🤣

Again, I want to be clear: I don't think the teachers are being lazy or negligent. Usually, these rigid ideas about specific field trips—whether it's nature retreats, city tours, museum visits, or trips to Hershey Park—come from the top down. From the administrators, principals, and so on. I assume they are the ones reviewing agency proposals and deciding where and with whom the students will go.
My apologies if I got the hierarchy wrong, but that's just how it works in our preschool. We teachers don't decide on the trips or the shows; the director and the principal make those calls.
It's not like we design the curriculum ourselves, either. It's just handed to us. I get the feeling it's the same way with the K-12 schools.

So no, I don't hold the teachers responsible, which I've already noted in previous posts. But honestly, nothing is going to change as long as parents just keep pouring money into every single field trip and McDonald's run throughout the year.

Jesse Flores842 said:One could also argue—and I say this with all due conviction—that the kid really shouldn't have touched that money in the first place. 🤷

I couldn't agree more—I am signing my name to this wholeheartedly.

I’ve been reading through this—very carefully—once again.
The teacher was fully aware of what they were going through—she was incredibly kind and compassionate about the whole situation—and she made sure to welcome them into the classroom with open arms.
There are five other kids in the class who take turns getting those free field trips—you know, how it goes, someone else gets picked every single time.
Look, let's be real here—that teacher is fully aware of what those families are going through. She knows firsthand that money is a massive issue for them.
So, what exactly is the issue then—why on earth does he insist on... $7.00 ?

And yet, she knowingly takes a class like that to McDonald's 🤷
and manages to cram two paid field trips into the exact same week. 🤷

To me, the $7.00 smallest issue remains the core of the whole thing.
It’s really just a symptom—the actual cause and the solution should be approached from a completely different angle.