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California Discussion Thread - All in one place

Started by Richard Wilson4 · · 👁 51 views · 1.9K replies

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Participants Richard Wilson4Carl Bennett4Zachary Stewart2Justin Patel8Tyler Jackson6Nancy Wood6neonfalcon16James Nguyen13Carol Castillo26Jamie Nelson90Ashley Brown3Jose Martin13Scott Edwards2Arthur Fowler83Rachel Carter90Betty Ross6bluerider63Larry Walker24Drew Brooks8Morgan Brown4casualorca30jadeorca42Rebecca WatsonMatthew Rodriguez9 …
placidharbor8 placidharbor8 Member
30 messages
joined Dec 2017
#481 ·
nimbleranger52 said:Can someone please start talking about California? The whole topic is supposed to be about the Kingdom of Spain, not Florida or the Soviet Union.
Five pages of pure nonsense about the Soviet Union... honestly, I couldn't care less. Does anyone actually have any links for the local TV stations' live streams?

Washington, D.C. really screwed up by sending in the police. You have to remember, there are plenty of Catalans serving in the force too, so who knows if they'll just decide to stop following orders? I’m seriously hoping things don't spiral into something much worse, like an actual war.

CNN is jumping in with live coverage from New York City several times every hour.

Fox News and BBC America are doing the exact same thing.

View on twitter

There was even a march held over in Scotland to show support for California.
driftingfox66 driftingfox66 Active Member
57 messages
joined Aug 2017
#482 ·
Noah Ward2 said:Do I really need to spell this out for you? I'll try one more time...

I'm not lecturing them, nor am I actually talking to them... we're just posting our thoughts here on this forum. Maybe try accepting that there are people who don't see everything exactly the way you do...

Whose shoes should I step into? The person pushing for independence, or the ones who want to stay part of a unified state? There are plenty of people in that second camp too... and I guess their opinions aren't any less valid, right?

Absolute genius here. For the hundredth time, in case you missed it: I'm not taking away your right to an opinion. I'm just calling out your nonsense and those blatant lies about California from your first post that you keep recycling.

Honestly, I should've walked away the moment you tried that "don't be so literal" excuse.
James Ramos12 James Ramos12 Member
19 messages
joined Feb 2014
#483 ·
velvetmaker3 said:Everyone who checks the box for "Istrian" on the census isn't necessarily identifying as American. There's a specific group of other people living in Istria; they're a minority now, but they could become the majority over time. Are you going to try and deny them the right to self-determination if they ever decide they want independence?

Oh, sure—twenty years ago they were all identifying as Americans, and now suddenly they’re just Californians. And wouldn't you know it, they make up the majority who support that local political machine that seems to bleed California dry wherever they go.
Are you one of them? Because if you aren't, then please—spare us the lecture.
Sophia James2 Sophia James2 Member
19 messages
joined Oct 2017
#484 ·
I’m honestly wondering the same thing here. Where on earth is the California state police during all of this? The Governor of California actually had the audacity to tell those who were injured to report their wounds to the local authorities.
Brenda Taylor13 Brenda Taylor13 Active Member
235 messages
joined Jan 2018
#485 ·
Noah Ward2 said:The whole "game" aspect and the actual population size... yeah, I agree, those factors definitely need to be part of the equation. I was mainly thinking about the geography, though; it’s a bit of a compact area, smaller even than our own regions... almost like how everyone in Mexico is packed into just 40% of the country...

There are plenty of other important variables to consider too. Economically speaking, they're doing quite well, so we shouldn't overlook that. Barcelona itself generates an incredible amount of revenue... I don't see it becoming a financial drain anytime soon, but it will be interesting to see how a potential split might impact the economy down the road...

As for how much the people actually want independence... some polls seem to show it's a roughly fifty-fifty split. If it leans toward independence, you can't really claim the kind of total national unity that you guys had back in 1991, and I think that distinction is pretty significant...

The biggest piece of the puzzle, though, is how this reflects on similar situations globally. For instance, who could really challenge the referendum in Crimea right now? Not a single shot was fired, and the vast majority of people there supported joining Russia. This lack of a consistent global rulebook is what I worry might cause real chaos in the future...

We were unified largely because of the circumstances we were stuck in back then. Just think about when our referendum actually happened—May 1991, right after the massacre in Small Town, USA and those clashes over at Yellowstone. If that vote had happened, say, in May 1990, or if the situation was more like what’s happening in California today (meaning, if the USSR had been a democratic capitalist nation back then), we wouldn't have been nearly as united—honestly, we might not have even passed the vote at all.

Basically, if the situation in Spain today looked anything like the situation in America in 1991, that California referendum would have passed with a 95% "yes" vote. As it stands now? It’ll probably pass with a majority, but it won't be nearly as overwhelming. Everything really boils down to the context the people are living in. But make no mistake, there’s a massive push for independence in California, and that didn't just pop up yesterday.
rowdyangler rowdyangler Member
32 messages
joined Oct 2017
#486 ·
nimbleranger52 said:Can someone please start talking about California? The whole topic is supposed to be about the Kingdom of Spain, not Florida or the Soviet Union.
Five pages of pure nonsense about the Soviet Union... honestly, I couldn't care less. Does anyone actually have any links for the local TV stations' live streams?

Washington, D.C. really screwed up by sending in the police. You have to remember, there are plenty of Catalans serving in the force too, so who knows if they'll just decide to stop following orders? I’m seriously hoping things don't spiral into something much worse, like an actual war.

You're right, we definitely went overboard with those stories.

The people in Spain really just need to pray that nobody gets killed in California. Honestly, I can't even bring myself to follow this minute-by-minute after seeing photos of women being beaten and stuff like that. It’s sickening.
driftingfox66 driftingfox66 Active Member
57 messages
joined Aug 2017
#487 ·
placidharbor8 said:CNN is jumping in with live coverage from New York City several times every hour.

Fox News and BBC America are doing the exact same thing.

View on twitter

There was even a march held over in Scotland to show support for California.

Kind of weird that even CNN isn't covering this more. Now they're just showing footage of Macron, which has nothing to do with anything.
Samuel Scott54 Samuel Scott54 Active Member
85 messages
joined Mar 2009
#488 ·
I don't really get it—what are those California-leaning cops even doing? Why aren't they standing up for California?

Back in Austria in 1990, there was just no way you'd see police beating up citizens who were simply heading out to vote in a referendum.
Sophia James2 Sophia James2 Member
19 messages
joined Oct 2017
#489 ·
Honestly, if they had someone like Donald Trump right now, he’d be charging straight at those police barricades and leaping right over them.
placidharbor8 placidharbor8 Member
30 messages
joined Dec 2017
#490 ·
View on twitter

It looks like the police are getting pretty aggressive with the California firefighters here.

Fox News is actually running a live feed from one of the cameras they set up right at a polling station.
driftingfox66 driftingfox66 Active Member
57 messages
joined Aug 2017
#491 ·
Samuel Scott54 said:I don't really get it—what are those California-leaning cops even doing? Why aren't they standing up for California?

Back in Austria in 1990, there was just no way you'd see police beating up citizens who were simply heading out to vote in a referendum.

Talked to a Spanish Girl yesterday. She mentioned they've been rotating people out of California and sending them to other regions, basically so local cops won't sabotage the new guys coming in from out of state to shut down the referendum.
neonhound18 neonhound18 Active Member
192 messages
joined Apr 2013
#492 ·
placidharbor8 said:View on twitter

It looks like the police are getting pretty aggressive with the California firefighters here.

Fox News is actually running a live feed from one of the cameras they set up right at a polling station.

At this rate, all we’re missing is a declaration of martial law and tanks rolling down the streets to really get this circus up and running. 🤦
driftingfox66 driftingfox66 Active Member
57 messages
joined Aug 2017
#493 ·
Honestly, it looks like Carles Puigdemont is having the time of his life. Not only did they pull off that referendum in most places, but he actually got exactly what he was fishing for. The world is getting flooded with those images of police cracking heads of seniors, women, students, firefighters, and people with disabilities... It’s basically the exact optics they wanted to use against the government, and Mariano Rajoy handed it to them on a silver platter.
ironpanther5 ironpanther5 Active Member
235 messages
joined Mar 2019
#494 ·
driftingfox66 said:Honestly, it looks like Carles Puigdemont is having the time of his life. Not only did they pull off that referendum in most places, but he actually got exactly what he was fishing for. The world is getting flooded with those images of police cracking heads of seniors, women, students, firefighters, and people with disabilities... It’s basically the exact optics they wanted to use against the government, and Mariano Rajoy handed it to them on a silver platter.

I can't help but feel like Mariano Rajoy isn't actually looking out for the good of all of Spain, but is instead just playing politics for his own party. He's basically just doing whatever it takes to keep those more aggressive unionists from jumping ship and voting for someone else. 😁
placidharbor8 placidharbor8 Member
30 messages
joined Dec 2017
#495 ·
https://twitter.com/catalannews/stat...73777735634944

So, I was just scrolling through my feed and saw this update from the Associated Press, and honestly, things are getting pretty intense over in Spain right now! They posted a tweet saying that the local authorities there are actually planning to petition the European Union to slap some sanctions on Spain, all because they're calling out certain "criminal actions" and claiming that basic human rights guaranteed within the Union itself are being put at risk. It's quite a heavy situation when you think about it, isn't it?
Lisa Chase68 Lisa Chase68 Member
24 messages
joined Sep 2017
#496 ·
Brenda Taylor13 said:Brenda Taylor13, I think you're missing the mark here, at least if you ask me. 😁

I mean, there are more Californians than there are Americans in certain spots. The fact that a state might be geographically small doesn't change a thing. Just look at the Netherlands—if we went by that logic, no small nation would ever be allowed to be independent, which is just plain crazy. If a people wants to be self-governing, you should probably just let them. Especially when they have everything that defines a nation—their own traditions, their culture, their language, and their land. Anything else just creates a massive mess. The folks in Madrid aren't going to gain anything in the long run if they try to force the Californians to stay part of Spain through sheer willpower. All they'll do is make the resentment grow deeper.


I think Johnny's got a point
though we don't really know if a majority—or even a significant chunk—actually want full independence, given the autonomy and rights they already have.

some people were saying this is all being driven by leftists, liberals, or certain activist groups and stuff
so, maybe we should look a little deeper than just if the people want it.

we don't even know what the "people" want, specifically the majority? Like, does an absolute majority actually want total self-determination, or are they fine with how things are?

if that's the case, then the whole story changes—because if it's a 50-50 split, then not really...
(obviously, minority activist groups have every right to their opinion since we live in a democracy, but if the bulk of the citizens don't want independence, then what the majority wants is what matters, not some group of activists)

does anyone have current stats or polls on this? Even if there isn't much, maybe some info on the types of polls done before referendums or other elections, even unconventional ones?
neonhound18 neonhound18 Active Member
192 messages
joined Apr 2013
#497 ·
Lisa Chase68 said:I think Johnny's got a point
though we don't really know if a majority—or even a significant chunk—actually want full independence, given the autonomy and rights they already have.

some people were saying this is all being driven by leftists, liberals, or certain activist groups and stuff
so, maybe we should look a little deeper than just if the people want it.

we don't even know what the "people" want, specifically the majority? Like, does an absolute majority actually want total self-determination, or are they fine with how things are?

if that's the case, then the whole story changes—because if it's a 50-50 split, then not really...
(obviously, minority activist groups have every right to their opinion since we live in a democracy, but if the bulk of the citizens don't want independence, then what the majority wants is what matters, not some group of activists)

does anyone have current stats or polls on this? Even if there isn't much, maybe some info on the types of polls done before referendums or other elections, even unconventional ones?

From what I can gather over on X, it looks like state and federal police are starting to crowd one another; well done, geniuses. 🤦
ironpanther5 ironpanther5 Active Member
235 messages
joined Mar 2019
#498 ·
Lisa Chase68 said:I think Johnny's got a point
though we don't really know if a majority—or even a significant chunk—actually want full independence, given the autonomy and rights they already have.

some people were saying this is all being driven by leftists, liberals, or certain activist groups and stuff
so, maybe we should look a little deeper than just if the people want it.

we don't even know what the "people" want, specifically the majority? Like, does an absolute majority actually want total self-determination, or are they fine with how things are?

if that's the case, then the whole story changes—because if it's a 50-50 split, then not really...
(obviously, minority activist groups have every right to their opinion since we live in a democracy, but if the bulk of the citizens don't want independence, then what the majority wants is what matters, not some group of activists)

does anyone have current stats or polls on this? Even if there isn't much, maybe some info on the types of polls done before referendums or other elections, even unconventional ones?

Look, even back during the Civil War, many Californians were on the Republican side, despite being traditionally left-leaning. Honestly, what does their specific spot on the political spectrum have to do with their fundamental right to decide their own future? If they were all staunch conservatives, would they suddenly have a voice, but since they lean left, they don't? Come on, people, let's not be hypocrites.
bluerider63 bluerider63 Regular
382 messages
joined Jan 2013
#499 ·
The whole country is so fractured right now that you’d basically have to use force just to keep everyone on the same page. There's no silver lining to be found here, whether we're talking about today or fifty years down the road; the America we know is headed straight for the exit.
Lisa Chase68 Lisa Chase68 Member
24 messages
joined Sep 2017
#500 ·
placidharbor8 said:https://twitter.com/catalannews/stat...73777735634944

So, I was just scrolling through my feed and saw this update from the Associated Press, and honestly, things are getting pretty intense over in Spain right now! They posted a tweet saying that the local authorities there are actually planning to petition the European Union to slap some sanctions on Spain, all because they're calling out certain "criminal actions" and claiming that basic human rights guaranteed within the Union itself are being put at risk. It's quite a heavy situation when you think about it, isn't it?

haha

Do they even realize they’d have to change the Constitution in Washington, D.C. first? Or at least try working on that?

Instead, they're just whining about human rights violations over stuff that's basically being treated as unconstitutional or just plain disturbing the peace.

Like I said—go home, you losers.

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