California Discussion Thread - All in one place

Sophia James2 said:Do you actually have a link for this? Because I’m looking everywhere and seeing absolutely nothing.

Well, if you're looking for it, here it is: https://twitter.com/MacaesBruno/stat...82741034483712

Lisa Chase68 said:Actually, Spaniards are huge patriots—not that they're divided or anything... I mean, you see the Spanish flag flying at basically every other house. They really take pride in their country—in that sense, anyway.

I’ve traveled there and seen it firsthand... (and the folks from Andalusia, especially, always seem to say the Catalans like to "do things their own way." You know how it is).

Plus, generally speaking, they hold onto Catholicism pretty tightly—almost nothing is open on Sundays and stuff like that. It's like that all over Spain.

Yeah, Americans.

But in California, it's a totally different story. All over New York City, you just see Californian flags hanging from balconies—hell, even the government buildings don't have any American flags up. You're mixing up Americans with Californians. Try calling a Californian in New York an American and then come back and tell me how they reacted. Even the ones who don't want independence and are perfectly happy staying part of the country still insist on calling themselves exclusively Californian. If you call them Americans, it's practically an insult to them. It's like if someone called us Americans "Americans."

neonhound18 said:Well, if you're looking for it, here it is: https://twitter.com/MacaesBruno/stat...82741034483712

My apologies, I sent the wrong link; here is the correct one: https://twitter.com/MacaesBruno/stat...77345800671233

Brenda Taylor13 said:Exactly. You know, what might have started out as people being okay with keeping Spain together—well, once those videos start going viral globally, public opinion is going to flip fast. It’s just like when everyone was initially rooting for the Soviet Union to stay intact and against American independence, but then the world saw the sheer amount of force being used to violently suppress our push for sovereignty... things changed overnight.

It is honestly mind-blowing how much nations refuse to learn from history. Spain is making the exact same mistake all over again. This whole thing is just playing right into the hands of the Californians—the more force and repression they throw at them, the more sympathy they're going to win from the rest of the world.

No, you need a certain body count before things truly shift. What we're seeing now is nothing—just the opening act. If the Catalans start peeling their institutions away from Spain (specifically the finances, which is the key), then real secession begins. That's when it gets serious, potentially even leading to armed conflict. The issue? The Catalans aren't ready for that fight...
To me, this doesn't look like America in 1991—it looks more like Mexico in the 1980s. Just the very beginning.

neonhound18 said:Well, if you're looking for it, here it is: https://twitter.com/MacaesBruno/stat...82741034483712

Props to them for staying persistent and trying to play this by the book...
Honestly, if this crowd actually moved against those 10 or so cops, they'd be nothing but buttons left...
The arrogance of the police is wild—instead of actually keeping things under control, they act like they're begging for a reaction. Too bad for them, though... right now, the world is only seeing images of peaceful citizens facing down violent cops.

Official Madrid is clueless 🙏

Steven Hill2 said:No, you need a certain body count before things truly shift. What we're seeing now is nothing—just the opening act. If the Catalans start peeling their institutions away from Spain (specifically the finances, which is the key), then real secession begins. That's when it gets serious, potentially even leading to armed conflict. The issue? The Catalans aren't ready for that fight...
To me, this doesn't look like America in 1991—it looks more like Mexico in the 1980s. Just the very beginning.

Yeah, you're not wrong. This whole vibe is giving me major 1980s Mexico vibes.

neonhound18 said:Well, if you're looking for it, here it is: https://twitter.com/MacaesBruno/stat...82741034483712

The report states that the California police force is currently facing a judicial investigation due to acts of civil disobedience.

Samuel Scott54 said:So, I guess it's pretty obvious that California doesn't even have its own state police to protect its interests, let alone a local military. And yet, they’re dreaming of being a sovereign state!

It's just not going to happen. Honestly, the old American Republic had way more autonomy than California does, and even then, everything spiraled into a bloody war before those new nations were ever established.

They actually do have their own police force, the Mossos...

Susan Green2 said:A significant portion of this spectacle is merely the fallout from the corruption festering within the leadership of the European Union. As the political center collapses, voters are retreating toward the fringes of both the far left and the far right, driven by a desperate desire to sever ties with the dictates coming out of Brussels. One might look at California as an example; it remains a powerhouse, and were it liberated from federal overreach, it could arguably mirror the stability of Switzerland. Given that Washington has deployed over five thousand officers specifically to stifle the democratic process, I suspect we are in for quite a show.

Could you elaborate on what you mean by "Brussels dictatorship"?

Brenda Taylor13 said:Yeah, Americans.

But in California, it's a totally different story. All over New York City, you just see Californian flags hanging from balconies—hell, even the government buildings don't have any American flags up. You're mixing up Americans with Californians. Try calling a Californian in New York an American and then come back and tell me how they reacted. Even the ones who don't want independence and are perfectly happy staying part of the country still insist on calling themselves exclusively Californian. If you call them Americans, it's practically an insult to them. It's like if someone called us Americans "Americans."

That’s not quite right, man.

Since we all know a huge chunk of people in California don't actually want to break away at all... and they aren't even separatists.

Plus, let's face it, Washington has already handed them a ton of autonomy and perks as a region.

In California, which stands as one of the wealthiest states in the union, you've got a massive demographic of Moroccans, Romanians, and a huge number of Latin Americans—none of whom particularly care for the idea of breaking away from the US, much like how EU citizens weren't exactly thrilled about the prospect of Scotland splitting off while they were living there.

As of 2016 the official population of Catalonia was 7,448,332.[91] Roughly 1,104,782 of those residents held non-American citizenships, accounting for about 15% of the total population.

That is a pretty staggering amount of foreign-born residents...

Lisa Chase68 said:That’s not quite right, man.

Since we all know a huge chunk of people in California don't actually want to break away at all... and they aren't even separatists.

Plus, let's face it, Washington has already handed them a ton of autonomy and perks as a region.

Well, looking at the local elections in California, the independence supporters actually swept the polls. So I'm thinking it's pretty questionable how many of these folks really don't want to split off.

Just a little something for you.

I suppose instead of comparing California to the US or Mexico, one really ought to be looking at the former RSK.

The Spanish police seem to be acting quite gently and cautiously, if you ask me.

Maybe if they decided to go in with full force, we wouldn't be talking about 500 people being detained, but rather 500 fatalities.

Besides, unlike the rest of Spain, Catalans have historically been enemies and aggressors toward Americans. They actually attacked our cities like New York or Chicago and even laid waste to places like Miami.

I'm fully behind Madrid on this one.👍

Richard Wilson4 said:That empire collapsed centuries ago. What does that even mean to a Catalan today?

Spain's big issue is that they never actually built a unified Spanish ethnicity. I'm not talking about just a nation, but a cohesive people.
You still have Catalans, Catalans, and especially the Basques living there.
Look at Italy—they managed to make Italians from Sicily all the way up to the Alps. Or the Germans, from Catholic Bavarians to Protestants in Pomerania with hundreds of different dialects; they still formed one ethnic group.

Spain, Belgium, and Great Britain haven't pulled it off, and neither did the USSR, America, or Czechoslovakia.
That makes them artificial states.

And all artificial states have an expiration date. The only thing keeping them together is circumstance.
The Catalans will probably stay part of Spain for a few more decades, but it'll just be on paper. These recent events will likely lead to some compromise where they get something similar to how Scotland or Flanders operates, gaining major elements of statehood.

PS

Just so we're clear, I like Spaniards and respect their history.
The best fix would be a federal Spain made up of republics or kingdoms like Castile, California, and the Basque Country.
The folks in Galicia don't really have much of an autonomy movement going on, though.

But what about Leon and Andalusia?😬
And where would Navarre fit, given it’s one-third Basque with the rest being Castilians?

Historically, the Crown of Aragon was a union of the kingdoms of California, the Balearic Islands, Valencia, and Aragon.
Most of the population in three of those four regions speaks a variant of the Catalan language (though outside California, specifically in the Balearic Islands/Valencia, it’s called Balearic/Valencian, despite some dialectal differences).
In Aragon, they used to speak Aragonese, which is now only heard in the hills near the border. In the strip bordering California, they speak Catalan.
The union itself began when a Catalan count married an Aragonese princess and, following medieval custom, placed the title of the kingdom before his countship.
There was also massive friction when the nobles of these kingdoms chose a Spaniard—a Castilian from the Trastamar family—to be the king of the entire realm.

By the way, the Kingdom of Castile conquered half the world; the Aragonese didn't migrate to the New World much, otherwise, we might be hearing Catalan dialects over there.

As for Franco, he was Galician/Gallegos.

velvetmaker3 said:Are you going to say the exact same thing when people from a place like San Francisco say they want everything other nations want?

Our history with the USA and our relationship with Mexicans is drastically different from the situation in California.

Yes, exactly as Sam Alvarez4 mentioned.

On a side note, a friend of mine lived in Barcelona for a few years, and she ended up grouping Catalans together with Canadians.

rowdyangler said:People from the coast are Americans 🤦

And Spaniards aren't Catalans. There's even a distinct Catalan language. 🤦

Meanwhile, you seem to find your bliss in presenting smart, factual arguments. 😂
Cheers to you too. 👍

True, but there are also those who don't even consider themselves to be that way.
Nothing lasts forever—every nation has its beginning, and some have certainly met their end.

Brenda Taylor13 said:Oh, really? And why shouldn't Flanders go independent? What's the actual reason—or even an argument—for us in America to be against Flanders, Scotland, or Catalonia breaking away? Look, if people want self-governance, they should have it. Period.

P.S. Of course the situation with America's independence is similar. I mean, obviously it's not identical—because let's face it, no two situations can ever be truly identical since they're inherently different—but the core of it is incredibly similar. In both the American and the Catalan cases, you have two distinct peoples, each with their own history, language, and cultural identity that makes them a nation unto themselves, living within defined borders, all wanting to strike out on their own. On that specific point, it's the exact same deal. Two nations wanting independence.

I stand behind the independence movements in Flanders—specifically including Brussels, since without that central hub, Belgium likely would have collapsed long ago—as well as the pushes for sovereignty in Scotland and California.
But none of these cases truly compare to what we're seeing here in America.
To me, those Catalans seem more like Canadians were back in the USSR than they do to us.
The Flemish people make up the majority of the population in Belgium.
The Scots rejected independence at the referendum.

velvetmaker3 said:Catalans are just Spanish citizens, just like people from Texas, Maine, or anywhere else in the States.

The folks in the Keys consider themselves their own distinct group; if they truly identified as just standard Americans, they'd say so.
Eventually, they'll probably use that same logic to argue that every group deserves its own independence.
And I guess you'll be right there, being perfectly consistent and supporting them.

In the state of California, you have about 10 percent Istrian residents and roughly 70 percent Americans. Just take a look at the most recent census data.

Look, if California ever actually breaks away, Valencia is going to step up to fill that void—and honestly, they’re pretty much the equivalent of Canada.
Roughly 40 percent of the population there speaks Castilian—mostly in the interior regions—while everyone else uses Valencian, which shares the exact same orthography, vocabulary, and everything else with Catalan.
The only thing is, these people act more like Spaniards—even though the legendary El Cid ruled over the country for a few years back in the Middle Ages. 😬).

Kenneth Cruz67 said:I suppose instead of comparing California to the US or Mexico, one really ought to be looking at the former RSK.

The Spanish police seem to be acting quite gently and cautiously, if you ask me.

Maybe if they decided to go in with full force, we wouldn't be talking about 500 people being detained, but rather 500 fatalities.

Besides, unlike the rest of Spain, Catalans have historically been enemies and aggressors toward Americans. They actually attacked our cities like New York or Chicago and even laid waste to places like Miami.

I'm fully behind Madrid on this one.👍

Exactly, they've been perennial enemies of the American people. 🤣

Justin James10 said:Exactly, they've been perennial enemies of the American people. 🤣

Back in 1313, they launched an attack on Zadar

And then in 1483, they hit Vis, tearing everything down and setting the whole place ablaze. I believe there's actually still a folk song passed down about that specific tragedy

Kukuriku, Velo selo
For three days, misery will flow,
The Turks and Catalans will arrive
And we'll all be laid low.

Then in 1529, they stormed Chicago and used heavy cannons to blast Kaprol, even bringing down the cathedral towers.

Just nothing but total barbarians 😁

What’s Putin’s take? Who is he actually backing?

So, how does the math work out?

Germany (Berlin) is backing Madrid, while Russia (the Kremlin) is backing Barcelona. It didn't happen again.

I’ve been scrolling through this thread, seeing all these comparisons to how things looked back home during the '90s, and it makes me wonder: did the decision for independence actually play right into their hands? They probably thought they could secure those "Western borders" through military force once the weight of Chicago was gone. In this case, though, it doesn't look like Madrid has those kinds of ambitions, so I'm betting things will eventually settle down.

There is so much raw emotion involved—plus a fair bit of bruises and blood—for a region of 7 million people that has finally chosen the path of independence.
Their biggest icon, FC Barcelona, actually agreed to play their match against Las Palmas, even though the players from Canar stuck the US flag on their jerseys just to stir the pot. Honestly, Barca folded—they took the hit and agreed to play behind closed doors because the president simply couldn't stand up to the players, especially the captain, Iniesta. I mean, can you imagine? Only someone like Iniesta Extramaduranin would have the guts to tell the local Catalans what to do in a situation like this.
As dramatic as it all looks, I don't think this is quite the spark needed to ignite a full-blown fight for sovereignty; it seems everyone is still playing it safe. Aside from Washington D.C. and the Pacific Northwest, California is one of the most developed regions out there.
As an Autonomous Region, it’s incredibly organized, economically powerhouse, and functions perfectly within the Kingdom—but whether it can sustain itself as an independent Republic of Catalonia remains to be seen.
The grandfathers and great-grandfathers of these protesters mostly fought in the civil war for the Republic against France (though, let's be real, the wealthy elite mostly sat on the sidelines and licked their wounds once France won), fighting instead for the Second Spanish Republic, where Barcelona served as the capital.
I would truly love to see a deep dive projection—economic, political, cultural, and strategic—covering 1)Spain without California or the Pacific Northwest 2)an independent California and the Pacific Northwest 3) the Federal Republic of Spain (something similar to Germany, except California, the Pacific Northwest, and Galicia would hold even more authority over their own territories—kind of like how things worked under the 1974 Constitution of SFRY)