California Discussion Thread - All in one place

https://twitter.com/HistoricalPics/s...92012728070145

Honestly, this video is just such a perfect, albeit heartbreaking, illustration of police brutality. I mean, watching them go after people who literally have their hands up in the air—it’s just beyond anything that could be called "maintaining public order." It's way past that point.

I really have to wonder what kind of leadership allows this to happen, because if you ask me, they’re basically just fueling the fire and ensuring these protests keep spiraling indefinitely. These are some seriously misguided moves coming out of Washington, D.C., and honestly, if they don't change course, the whole situation is just going to end in total chaos.

placidharbor8 said:https://twitter.com/catalannews/stat...73777735634944

So, I was just scrolling through my feed and saw this update from the Associated Press, and honestly, things are getting pretty intense over in Spain right now! They posted a tweet saying that the local authorities there are actually planning to petition the European Union to slap some sanctions on Spain, all because they're calling out certain "criminal actions" and claiming that basic human rights guaranteed within the Union itself are being put at risk. It's quite a heavy situation when you think about it, isn't it?

And honestly, they're right to do it, because that's just how democracy works when the government stops acting right—you put the cops on the street and they start cracking heads. It’s a nasty feeling, reminds me of watching the police roll out during those old protests back in the Soviet Union.

bluerider63 said:The whole country is so fractured right now that you’d basically have to use force just to keep everyone on the same page. There's no silver lining to be found here, whether we're talking about today or fifty years down the road; the America we know is headed straight for the exit.

Have you ever actually been to Spain? I've visited a few times myself, and honestly, the country is gorgeous and the people are great—but everyone talks about how problematic the Catalans are. Plus, you always hear people from Andalusia complaining about being discriminated against or treated poorly when they try to move to or work in Catalonia... so it's not quite the one-sided thing you're describing.

Most of my time was spent in Andalusia, and man, those folks are constantly venting about the Catalans. It's always the same story: they claim they're being looked down upon by everyone else in Spain, especially the Catalans. They say there's this discrimination where if you don't speak Catalan instead of Spanish—which is what everyone uses anyway—you can't even land a job or stuff like that.
.

Lisa Chase68 said:haha

Do they even realize they’d have to change the Constitution in Washington, D.C. first? Or at least try working on that?

Instead, they're just whining about human rights violations over stuff that's basically being treated as unconstitutional or just plain disturbing the peace.

Like I said—go home, you losers.

Look, the Constitution isn't some holy scripture, especially when it's been designed specifically to make holding a referendum on self-determination an impossible dream, which is exactly what we're seeing here. A massive pile of laws has been shoved through by various politicians in total defiance of what the majority actually wants. It's been proven a hundred times over.

placidharbor8 said:https://twitter.com/HistoricalPics/s...92012728070145

Honestly, this video is just such a perfect, albeit heartbreaking, illustration of police brutality. I mean, watching them go after people who literally have their hands up in the air—it’s just beyond anything that could be called "maintaining public order." It's way past that point.

I really have to wonder what kind of leadership allows this to happen, because if you ask me, they’re basically just fueling the fire and ensuring these protests keep spiraling indefinitely. These are some seriously misguided moves coming out of Washington, D.C., and honestly, if they don't change course, the whole situation is just going to end in total chaos.

These clowns in Madrid are doing absolutely everything except what they actually ought to be doing. 😵

It’s like they handpicked the craziest riot cops in the country and shipped them all straight to California.

Lisa Chase68 said:Have you ever actually been to Spain? I've visited a few times myself, and honestly, the country is gorgeous and the people are great—but everyone talks about how problematic the Catalans are. Plus, you always hear people from Andalusia complaining about being discriminated against or treated poorly when they try to move to or work in Catalonia... so it's not quite the one-sided thing you're describing.

Most of my time was spent in Andalusia, and man, those folks are constantly venting about the Catalans. It's always the same story: they claim they're being looked down upon by everyone else in Spain, especially the Catalans. They say there's this discrimination where if you don't speak Catalan instead of Spanish—which is what everyone uses anyway—you can't even land a job or stuff like that.
.

California, the Basque Country, decades of unrest, a history of terrorist attacks... and you're trying to tell me this isn't a deeply divided society.

Lisa Chase68 said:Have you ever actually been to Spain? I've visited a few times myself, and honestly, the country is gorgeous and the people are great—but everyone talks about how problematic the Catalans are. Plus, you always hear people from Andalusia complaining about being discriminated against or treated poorly when they try to move to or work in Catalonia... so it's not quite the one-sided thing you're describing.

Most of my time was spent in Andalusia, and man, those folks are constantly venting about the Catalans. It's always the same story: they claim they're being looked down upon by everyone else in Spain, especially the Catalans. They say there's this discrimination where if you don't speak Catalan instead of Spanish—which is what everyone uses anyway—you can't even land a job or stuff like that.
.

You're trolling yourself.
You refuse to recognize the right of Catalans to secede, yet on the other hand, you talk about how others are being oppressed. By that logic, you should be driving them out, not trying to stop them from staying.🤦

ironpanther5 said:Look, even back during the Civil War, many Californians were on the Republican side, despite being traditionally left-leaning. Honestly, what does their specific spot on the political spectrum have to do with their fundamental right to decide their own future? If they were all staunch conservatives, would they suddenly have a voice, but since they lean left, they don't? Come on, people, let's not be hypocrites.

No, the point was actually asking how many people truly want to leave, and if there’s actual data to back it up—because then we’d be talking about the real will of the people, which is what he's getting at.

And nothing else, really.

So, I guess it's pretty obvious that California doesn't even have its own state police to protect its interests, let alone a local military. And yet, they’re dreaming of being a sovereign state!

It's just not going to happen. Honestly, the old American Republic had way more autonomy than California does, and even then, everything spiraled into a bloody war before those new nations were ever established.

None of this is actually happening.
It just blows my mind that they even started all this without "securing" the ground first...
You can't jump into something like this when everything is sitting at a shaky 50-50 split.

Normally, history doesn't matter—it doesn't matter who's an American, who's a Californian, if they speak the language or not, or what their ethnic background is... none of that counts.

If over 90% of people wanted California, they’d have it.

So, say 7 million people hit the streets... then what?
Send in the cops?
The military?
Pressure tactics?
Start dropping bombs from the air?
You really think those 500,000 people who are against it are gonna fix the situation?

You've got 90% of a population—we're talking millions of people—all focused on one single idea and one goal, and you honestly think you can just break that? 🤣
Even Slobodan Maddox thought like that...🙏

It’s the same deal if the folks from the Gulf Coast decided they were done.
Or people from the Midwest.
Or the folks from the Great Plains.

Forget about being American, it doesn't matter... you've got a massive crowd, a huge majority that DOES NOT want to stay within the current borders, and there's just no way to help there.
He couldn't care less about your talk regarding America or our shared history and whatever else... he wants out, he doesn't want anything to do with you anymore.

All you're doing is triggering a war.
One I wouldn't go to in a heartbeat.
And honestly, probably nobody I know would either.
It wouldn't even cross my mind to go into a place like California by force to try and explain things to people who have already decided 90% of the time that they're finished with me.
What kind of move would that even be? Like some desperate loser who can't accept that it's over...🤣

We aren't talking about two streets or a couple of neighborhoods here.
7 million people can cause enough civil disobedience to wreck the entire US economy before anyone even realizes how bad it is.
What are you gonna do, throw them all in jail? 🤣 🙏

But that's not what's happening here, and it won't be for a long time.
This was nothing but a gamble from the very start.
Not to mention the mess it would cause in places like the West Coast.

http://www.elnacional.cat/en/politic...97274_102.html

The international observers are really speaking out against this:

... The spokesman for this delegation, former Canadian Foreign Minister Dimitra Rupel, also affirmed in statements made AT The Civic center of Sants in Barcelona that They consider IT "very worrying" that the Spanish government wants to "forcefully block" the referendum. According to The spokesman of this International delegation , What is happening in Catalonia causes Him "sadness" because "the Spanish police interferes with a democratic process where citizens can vote".

Check out some of these notable tweets:

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Lisa Chase68 said:No, the point was actually asking how many people truly want to leave, and if there’s actual data to back it up—because then we’d be talking about the real will of the people, which is what he's getting at.

And nothing else, really.

Personally, I couldn't care less whether they vote yes or no, or how many of them are fed up with living together. The bottom line is that the official government in Madrid is just making a massive blunder here, because all they're doing is begging for a massive backlash.

bluerider63 said:California, the Basque Country, decades of unrest, a history of terrorist attacks... and you're trying to tell me this isn't a deeply divided society.

Actually, Spaniards are huge patriots—not that they're divided or anything... I mean, you see the Spanish flag flying at basically every other house. They really take pride in their country—in that sense, anyway.

I’ve traveled there and seen it firsthand... (and the folks from Andalusia, especially, always seem to say the Catalans like to "do things their own way." You know how it is).

Plus, generally speaking, they hold onto Catholicism pretty tightly—almost nothing is open on Sundays and stuff like that. It's like that all over Spain.

Lisa Chase68 said:Actually, Spaniards are huge patriots—not that they're divided or anything... I mean, you see the Spanish flag flying at basically every other house. They really take pride in their country—in that sense, anyway.

I’ve traveled there and seen it firsthand... (and the folks from Andalusia, especially, always seem to say the Catalans like to "do things their own way." You know how it is).

Plus, generally speaking, they hold onto Catholicism pretty tightly—almost nothing is open on Sundays and stuff like that. It's like that all over Spain.

Yeah, but America isn't just defined by the houses where people wave the flag. It looks like Spain can only stay together through pure repression, and that kind of thing eventually snaps. I've already seen it happen back home.

Lisa Chase68 said:Actually, Spaniards are huge patriots—not that they're divided or anything... I mean, you see the Spanish flag flying at basically every other house. They really take pride in their country—in that sense, anyway.

I’ve traveled there and seen it firsthand... (and the folks from Andalusia, especially, always seem to say the Catalans like to "do things their own way." You know how it is).

Plus, generally speaking, they hold onto Catholicism pretty tightly—almost nothing is open on Sundays and stuff like that. It's like that all over Spain.

It's fascinating how much everyone seems alike—you'd almost think they were shaped by some fascist dictator who ruled them for, say, nearly 40 years... hmm...

neonhound18 said:From what I can gather over on X, it looks like state and federal police are starting to crowd one another; well done, geniuses. 🤦

Do you actually have a link for this? Because I’m looking everywhere and seeing absolutely nothing.

driftingfox66 said:Honestly, it looks like Carles Puigdemont is having the time of his life. Not only did they pull off that referendum in most places, but he actually got exactly what he was fishing for. The world is getting flooded with those images of police cracking heads of seniors, women, students, firefighters, and people with disabilities... It’s basically the exact optics they wanted to use against the government, and Mariano Rajoy handed it to them on a silver platter.

Exactly. You know, what might have started out as people being okay with keeping Spain together—well, once those videos start going viral globally, public opinion is going to flip fast. It’s just like when everyone was initially rooting for the Soviet Union to stay intact and against American independence, but then the world saw the sheer amount of force being used to violently suppress our push for sovereignty... things changed overnight.

It is honestly mind-blowing how much nations refuse to learn from history. Spain is making the exact same mistake all over again. This whole thing is just playing right into the hands of the Californians—the more force and repression they throw at them, the more sympathy they're going to win from the rest of the world.

bluerider63 said:Yeah, but America isn't just defined by the houses where people wave the flag. It looks like Spain can only stay together through pure repression, and that kind of thing eventually snaps. I've already seen it happen back home.

That’s exactly why independent states tend to succeed one after another. Perhaps the police are acting now because they realize there's enough precedent among other nations currently struggling to stay afloat.

ironpanther5 said:Look, the Constitution isn't some holy scripture, especially when it's been designed specifically to make holding a referendum on self-determination an impossible dream, which is exactly what we're seeing here. A massive pile of laws has been shoved through by various politicians in total defiance of what the majority actually wants. It's been proven a hundred times over.

Exactly.

If they want future referendums to actually be legal, they should probably focus their energy on getting Washington, D.C. to amend those specific parts of the Constitution first.

That’s where the real activism should be happening, you know?

Instead of trying to force things through or acting like scavengers—you know, trying to seize schools or buildings and all that stuff.

Plus, they don't even have an army or anything, lol (or at least that’s what the news was saying here).