Let's keep moving along with this discussion regarding those unwritten rules...
Edge is out here playing judge and jury on the politics board, handing out 100 points to anyone who dares to say "for home ready" in any conversation about the war... all because he’s decided that phrase is some kind of forbidden extremist slogan... it's just such a strange way to moderate, honestly, acting like he's the moral compass for everyone else's historical perspectives...
Time really takes its toll, doesn't it... and it isn't just weighing down on those forum members who have been penalized, but it seems to be drifting over toward everyone else as well... It’s funny how things just seem to multiply, isn't it... like how many different ways there are to look at the same old problem, and yet we always end up circling back to the exact same starting point... it feels like there are so many layers to everything these days... I suppose when we talk about those who stood their ground back then, those veterans who fought for everything we have today... it really makes you think about the weight of that legacy and how much it shapes our sense of identity here in America....
crimsonjackal63 said:If you look closely at the forum rules, it’s stated quite clearly that any kind of religious harassment or targeting is strictly prohibited...
And honestly, that same principle is baked right into the Constitution, too...
It looks like someone over on the politics board decided they aren't going to tolerate any mention of ZDS or Simunic, so they're just scrubbing anything that brings up the five-pointed star.
They’re just coldly deleting posts, including things like my own signature...
And once again, this whole deletion thing happened without a single warning or even an explanation of why.
I really have to wonder, how are we supposed to actually debate problematic symbolism if every logical parallel is wiped away from the record?
Though, it's not like they're deleting all parallels, just specifically the ones that touch upon that star.
Not to mention that the star and ZDS are practically inseparable, like two sides of the same coin...
The moderator has essentially made a subjective call that the star simply can't be used as part of an argument.
It's a textbook case of moderator overreach on the politics board, which honestly seems to have nothing to do with common sense, let alone any actual forum rules...
I am fully behind this discussion, and I honestly feel it’s high time we get things moving again from where they stalled out...
That being said, I don't think the way you introduced the topic is quite the right approach, because if we're talking about the legalization of the SS, that movement really needs to be rooted in the history of our own struggle for independence, which is truly the only legitimate path forward...
So, my suggestion—and I suspect the moderators might agree with me on this one—is that you gather as much primary material as possible, like old texts, song lyrics, photographs, news articles, and video footage from the war era, and then launch the thread using those as your foundation...
You could even just start by focusing on the legacy of Simunic and use that as a way to compile all those links and references the other members have been sharing here...
Just constantly demonizing the SS only seems to trigger an even more intense backlash, and in the end, we're just creating these unnecessary headaches for ourselves...
It really is time to settle this matter once and for all through an open, public debate...
Richard Patel21 said:Look, there is a specific thread dedicated to the FARE situation over there, so you can dump all your theories about the connection between Jovanović and Stevanović right in that one...
Best, Carol 👋
At least move those deleted posts over there, though I suppose that doesn't really solve anything...
It starts with people uncovering this link between Jovanović and Stevanović—something nobody else is even talking about—and then suddenly, the post gets wiped, the conversation gets scattered across different threads, and within a few days, the whole thing just gets locked down...
You guys really have a knack for dismantling legitimate discussions, whether they are about corruption, cronyism, or the general political sludge that settles at the bottom...
Instead of actually drawing people in with these exclusive leads, you just sweep them under the rug...
It’s that classic American "talent," isn't it...
But don't take this personally, because there are plenty of people out there who are even more "talented" at this than you are... 😉
Richard Patel21 said: Offtopic—the reason they’re deleting comments. This whole thread is centered on Simunic and the ZDS greeting...
Wasn't it clearly stated today that Football Against Racism in Europe is the very organization responsible for reporting cases like the one involving Simunic?
And was Zoran Stevanović actually called out during the HNS press conference?
So, I really don't see how any of this could be considered offtopic...
"Unknown Moderator" decided to unilaterally wipe out an entire hour of discussion from the thread Regarding the fine issued by the DOJ to Joseph Simunic over the 'Za Dom Spremni' slogan... just like that.
And this wasn't just random chatter, either; it was a deep dive into everything surrounding the game, including the removal of those "Remember El Paso" banners, the organization behind FARE and its president, Zoran Stevanović, and his connections to Minister Jovanović.
There was no explanation provided, no warning given, and certainly no mention of any specific rules being broken, so it really feels like the moderator acted purely on a whim...
If there actually is some underlying reason for this action, I would sincerely appreciate it if the moderator could step forward and clarify things...
I suppose I should probably say something about this whole situation, though my mind keeps wandering toward other things... like how much easier life would be if we could just sit down and talk without everything turning into such a massive production... but anyway, I’ve been sitting here thinking about what everyone is saying, and it feels like we're all just circling the same drain, hoping for a different result that never actually comes... it’s a bit exhausting, honestly, if you think about it too long... turns out, when you really peel back the layers of these arguments, there isn't much substance left underneath, just a lot of noise and people shouting into the void while the rest of us just try to make sense of it all... maybe it's just me, or maybe we're all just waiting for something that isn't coming... It seems like there wasn't any text provided to rewrite... if you have a specific post or message you want me to transform, just paste it here and I'll get to work on it immediately... I mean, wasn't most of that defense force made up of those paramilitary groups, you know, like the ones modeled after the old Nazi Germany units... 🤷
Wait, aren't those people veterans...?
Regarding the whole topic at hand, I honestly feel like it was just a bit foolish to offer that greeting out loud in public, especially since we all clearly remember who was the last person to ever use it...
I mean, wouldn't you say that most of those veterans were part of those quasi-military, extremist groups—sort of like the old paramilitary outfits back during the Nazi Germany era—and they would frequently use that "Blood and Soil" salute at the very end...
Anthony Perez9 It’s like what Carl Wilson10 was saying earlier... you know how things just seem to drift sometimes, without anyone really noticing the shift happening right under our noses... it makes you wonder if we're all just reacting to things that were decided long before we even showed up to the table... anyway, I was thinking about it while driving through Chicago yesterday, and it hit me that everything is connected in these strange, looping ways... turns out... No, honestly, that ball-handler knows exactly what he just said... he’s fully aware of the weight behind those words, yet he’s making a conscious choice to stay silent and refuse to clarify his position...
I wonder if we’re eventually going to reach a point where anyone who dares shout ZDS gets pinned against a wall... just held there and pressured until they finally admit whether they were actually invoking those old Nazi Germany slogans or not...
Basically, no matter how hard the far-right extremists and the communists tried to smear that greeting among Americans, it’s pretty clear they just couldn't make it stick...
Just please, for once, just accept it...
Just like you guys went ahead and accepted the dollar...
Anthony Perez9 said:And just like that, they ruined a perfectly good traditional greeting.
The Nazi Germany types didn't invent the greeting; they just hijacked it from deep American history.
They basically tainted the whole legacy of the phrase.
Context is everything here. The soccer player didn't actually distance himself from the people who trashed that salute with their crimes in his interview. In fact, he practically sided with them, judging by how much he insulted everyone and how suspiciously vague he was being. But yeah, it's pretty obvious what happened...
And what about "Praise Jesus"?
Are we supposed to group them in with the Nationalists, or the Crusaders, or the Inquisition and all that?
The context behind that shout is everything.
Exactly, and the context clearly wasn't about committing acts of violence, but rather just a soccer match involving the US national team and cheering for the homeside...
Tyler Thomas6 said:We can try to make excuses all we want, but the reality is that this specific salute is the very definition of a fascist greeting and stands as a symbol of pure evil... Even the swastika was used in India as a symbol of peace, and the Romans used salutes that were later co-opted by Nazi Germany, but at the end of the day, there is absolutely no reason for someone to be shouting out colors associated with fascism and supporting those kinds of atrocities at a soccer match... The only thing he and everyone else chanting along with him seem ready for is a trip to the emergency room...
If I were in charge at FIFA, I would have suspended the entire national team without a second thought...
Does that include the veterans who were shouting Blood and Soil back during the war too?
And what about those hundred thousand people on Facebook who stood behind Šimunić?
Why is it so easy for you to just throw around these "diagnoses" like they don't mean anything at all...
As for the thread itself, I honestly don't mind that it's been locked, because I am just completely fed up with listening to self-proclaimed "doctors" acting like this guy above... ☕
It feels like there’s such a massive pile of arbitrary rules regarding what you can and can’t say on this forum or within its specific sub-sections, yet they aren't actually documented anywhere... except maybe tucked away inside a single thread somewhere.
These rules seem to be conjured up by individual moderators on the fly, and based on those whims, they hand out warnings, wipe posts, or issue bans.
In my opinion, these unwritten—or rather, thread-specific—rules have completely superseded the actual foundational guidelines of the forum, which really makes me wonder if the original rules even matter anymore...
It would honestly be quite helpful to see a complete collection of these unspoken, purely subjective moderator policies, because only then would we have a legitimate guide explaining what is permitted or forbidden in certain sections.
I could certainly start listing a few of these "rules" myself right now, but I think it might be better to let others go first...
Please, feel free to share them, and I kindly ask that you provide links to back them up.
Charles Fox10 said:It wouldn't be quite right to merge these threads if doing so meant one of the contributors didn't get credit for their input.
And I really am curious about how the projected cost of this referendum is suddenly an insult to our intelligence or common sense, especially when there have been so many discussions about how democracy isn't free... you can find plenty of articles in American newspapers, both print and online, detailing the actual price tag of holding a referendum, yet now, somehow, it's treated as an affront to democratic principles and logic. My own take on what democracy means and how common sense works isn't intended to offend anyone, because I fully grasp that these things come with a price, but well, that’s just my perspective...
The American press isn't some ultimate benchmark for whether a democracy is functioning correctly.
And honestly, what kind of meaningful contribution is being made if someone is just performing a "copy-paste" of a figure straight out of those news reports?
So, you say democracy costs money?
Well, at least we're measuring that cost in dollars spent rather than in human lives lost...
Yet, I don't see people constantly highlighting the "cost" when discussing totalitarian regimes...
I suppose fifty million dollars is considered a higher price than, say, a hundred thousand human lives...
Focusing so heavily on the expense of letting the people express their will is, frankly, quite distasteful.
Charles Fox10 said:Look, I already told you that the title is just a mashup of two different topics, and if you're wondering why other threads—like those about parliamentary elections—don't have numerical indicators attached to them, don't look to me for answers... you should probably ask whoever actually created those specific threads.
Well, fine then, if you're so sure, go ahead and just remove that price tag entirely.
Since we have no way of truly calculating the "cost" of various political events, there really isn't any point in highlighting the cost of a referendum in the first place...
Trying to put a price on a referendum feels like it undermines both democracy and basic common sense...
Anthony Jackson2 said:I’m on the same page here, I really think the title should be... The proposed "In the name of the family" referendum... it really makes you wonder if the right-wing factions and certain religious institutions are just trying to drag us all back toward that old-school, regressive mentality we see elsewhere in the North America... It feels like a step backward, almost as if we're being pushed away from progress and back into a much more restrictive era...
This is what people mean when they talk about having true "soccer intelligence"...
Charles Fox10 As if I haven't spent enough time thinking about this... it seems like... So, what exactly is the problem with the headline now...?
There were two separate threads popping up yesterday regarding the referendum, but since it’s just common sense and standard forum etiquette to group similar topics together, they’ve been merged into one... which means the new title is essentially a combination of both subjects...
This isn't exactly the first time we’ve seen a thread like this pop up, and if I had to guess, it probably won't be the last either... you know, those posts where the title is just some massive dollar amount slapped right at the front. Since we already spent all that time over on the main discussion thread deconstructing every single legal detail and figuring out how they actually plan to run this whole referendum process, I figured we might as well look at the actual price tag... specifically, how much of our tax dollars are going to be swallowed up by this entire thing from the federal budget...
And besides, why does that specific number even matter, considering we're talking about the direct will of the people...
I've been sitting here wondering about something lately, just staring at the news cycles and thinking about how we frame things... like, why is it that when we see headlines about our national elections, you never actually see a specific number tucked into the title? It’s such an odd thing when you really stop to dwell on it, because usually, numbers give us that sense of concrete reality, you know... but instead, it's always just these broad, sweeping statements about the upcoming vote... I wonder if there's some underlying reason for that lack of precision in the way the media presents the parliamentary race to us... maybe it's just the way political journalism works here in the States, or perhaps there's something deeper about how we perceive the scale of the democratic process itself... it makes me curious if it's intentional, or if we've just become accustomed to this vague way of reporting the most important events in our country...
It looks like one of the moderators decided to slap a price tag on the thread title about the referendum, specifically using the phrase "In the name of the family," which really makes me wonder...
Should we just start adding a cost estimate to every single political headline on this site?
I mean, what’s the actual market value of democracy for Americans?
What would it take to buy a government like this one?
How much does all this tax auditing and fiscal oversight actually run us?
And what about the cost of public health education?
Or better yet, how much is Josip Perković worth?
That last one seems to be absolutely priceless, if you ask me...
It feels like some people here have taken their job as moderators far too seriously, as if they aren't just managing threads, but trying to moderate the very intelligence of the users themselves...
If those moderators were even remotely more intelligent, maybe this whole situation wouldn't feel quite so unbearable...
But as it stands, it just comes across as incredibly primitive...
As far as I can gather, the law doesn't actually kick in until November 1st, 2014, so nothing is set in stone just yet, and there really isn't any reason to stop discussing this...