Posts by Benjamin Cruz29

rizla-wb-195 said:Cim, it might be easier for you to grasp if you realize we’re just a group defined by the "moment": [/B]
Look, I’m asking you now—regarding the cheering during that game a couple of years back when we filled about 95% of the South Stand (I watched, I looked around, and I literally know every single person in those seats; the South Stand was packed with people who show up for the Kansas City Chiefs regularly, whether at home or away, even though sometimes the numbers were flipped and there'd be 2,000 empty spots but I knew 500 regulars were there)—why did we fail so hard in our support during that specific game?🤷
Maybe we failed because it was just too cold; some freezing wind was blowing and we were literally shivering. Maybe it’s because the main leaders weren't there that day, or maybe it’s because the score wasn't going our way. Or perhaps it's because when the South Stand is full, you need at least three guys leading the chants (since one guy is just pathetic in my opinion, because you don't have a microphone and nobody can hear you over the wind). So, I'm talking about the atmosphere, which definitely wasn't like this most recent game, and I want you to tell me why.🤷
And the worst part of all—after all that mocking about the overweight fans—once the game actually ended, we started cheering so loud it gave us a headache. After the cameras turned off and the match was officially over, we were roaring, literally killing it with the decibels. Come on, answer me why.🤷

Man, what do you mean "a group of moments"... when 3,000 of us show up, the stands thunder. It's not like all 3,000 have to be hardcore, since there are always casual fans mixed in, but a thousand people can carry that easily without breaking a sweat... what does "a group of moments" even mean? That sounds like something the casual fans would say to cover for being lazy.

Harold Taylor6 said:Honestly, that’s probably the most misguided take I’ve seen on this entire board. The Hell Angels have never dealt with those kinds of issues. If anything, back when the North Stand was packed, the energy was incredible—it felt like one single, unified soul. I guess your expertise on the Hell Angels is pretty questionable, at best.

😲😲, 😂😂

Andrew Brooks7 said:The Choreography for the (5) section was basically non-existent... honestly, the guys trying to lead things today just don't have that leadership spark. I guess you aren't born with it, but you can try to find it eventually... on to the next one.

Oh, please... people are just looking for any excuse to be miserable and refuse to cheer. 🙄

Just one bit of advice... they really need to put someone in the northwest stands who can actually stay focused for the entire game.

http://www.dalmacijanews.com/Hajduk/...e-u-2-HNL.aspx

I wish I could say the same.

Daniel Carter9 said:Maybe it’s because we’re in such a weird spot, but honestly, I don't get why we won't just let the Los Angeles Dodgers go into bankruptcy and drop to the bottom tier?

Taking a page out of the Texas Rangers' book, maybe we could start building a decent story from scratch instead of being pawns in their little distraction games meant to hide the actual issues.

From that bottom league, we could fix the club properly—buy it back, reorganize it, maybe model it after San Francisco. I might even take it a step further: establish a foundation where only players from California or those with Californian roots can play for the Los Angeles Dodgers. That way, we stop ruining everything with this whole modern, capitalistic, results-driven, transfer-obsessed, shady agent mess.

The foundations would be incredibly tough, and the road would be long. But if the end result looks like San Francisco—meaning a few years of struggling, then seeing a single dollar return, then more struggling... it would probably be worth the hassle. More importantly, the club's identity would be secured forever.
I'm saying this in good faith, really. I just don't understand why people accept this charade when all that's left of our club is its identity in California. We should build from there rather than prolonging this agony with another Kerum-style circus.

In my opinion, an excellent post... though you might be exaggerating a bit by saying every player has to be from California (though most should be), and that we'd have to struggle. Still, playing in this swamp doesn't seem to serve any purpose anyway.

If we follow the Model Code in the constitution... starting with our Los Angeles Dodgers from the fourth tier... in four years we'll likely be right where we are today, but with a much more stable club and, most crucially, a stable management team.

rustyangler122 said:...well, I'm certainly no saint either🤣
...anyway, I'm feeling more alive now. Heading out to a party for a bit😍

Stay lively, man.

rustyangler122 said:...were you actually there, just wondering🤷(I could write this in more detail later, but I'm absolutely wiped out right now, so forget it)...I mean, are you speaking as someone who lived through it firsthand, or can you be objective about that era (not that people who were active back then aren't objective today, obviously)
...man, those old mental images always mess with my head. It wasn't easy back then, and honestly, it isn't easy now either...
...sometimes it feels like being a fan in the 80s was way tougher, but other times, looking at the last few seasons with all this constant suppression, it seems different...
...

I was just a kid back then..

rustyangler122 said:Look, once you actually get around to tackling that, just start a new thread. We can have a proper discussion there. It’s better than trying to cram every single random thought into one topic—it's like trying to shove everything into a locked closet. It just doesn't work.🙂

The Rangers Supporters Club back in the '80s was basically the vanguard—the true blueprint for everything supporter culture became in this part of the world. They set the standard that every other group eventually followed, which is why they’ll always command a certain level of respect. I guess you could compare them to the old-school English or Italian ultras... even if those scenes aren't exactly at their peak these days.

I guess I agree with most of what Štabuljin is saying here... but honestly, what those Red Devils claim to be is just talk. Whether it was back in the 80s or right now, the Boys are still the Boys. What does that actually signify? To me, those Red Devils seem like the biggest frauds out there. I mean, look at how they boycott away games when their own club is struggling—even their leadership joins in. You can't even gauge their actual strength because they act like buddies with everyone across Europe. Then you have the Gravediggers, rolling around in black Jeeps only to get jumped by whoever they cross paths with. Their biggest achievement was probably that little parade in Malta. I won’t even mention our Boys, otherwise, this thread might head in a direction I'd rather avoid... but we all know what happened. Personally, I don't see any real grit or a mindset in those groups that the Black Knights should even bother emulating. If anything, it's the opposite.

And since we're on the subject of mentality... they spend about a hundred times more money and effort trying to fix Hajduk than they ever do on any Red Devil or Gravedigger. So much for having a "mentality."

As for the thugs? Back in the 80s, the Black Knights dealt with half as many of them as they do today.

I have one question, since everything seems to revolve around this debate over whether the Raiders are actually an organized group or not... I’ll be honest, I just can't wrap my head around why we aren't considered a group while the Boys are, or why the Boys 2006 weren't viewed as a group back then but somehow are now.

So, what is there left to say...

In America, the Raiders have the largest section in the stadium.
We have the highest turnout for away games.
If you ask me, we create the best atmosphere at home.
Personally, I think the Raiders are also the best vocal traveling squad out there.
We light up the most flares, both at home and on the road.
Our stands are visually the best—flags, banners, choreographies—whether we are at home or away.
Out of all the American groups, we have the best European trips... I mean, the sheer numbers, the flares, the displays... even on the streets, the Raiders are pretty solid (Athens, Rome, Milan, Brussels), though maybe Zenith is the one exception.

And yet, we still aren't called a group, even though the Armada or the Boys, who operate in those same circles (aside from the Boys being active on the streets), are far behind us.

Can we talk about awareness for a second? For instance, there hasn't really been much agency regarding the management over the last 5 or 6 years; they worked systematically to target the wrong people within the front office... they worked on the code of conduct, they worked on our Los Angeles Dodgers... and still, we aren't a group.

Matthew Foster8 said:I agree with a good portion of what you're saying, and honestly, CUCN just summed everything up perfectly. You build a real supporter mentality, and then everything falls into place. But this recent mess uncovered during these transitions? It’s actually worse than even the bleakest predictions. We might be looking at a nostalgia trip for the 90s just to cope. I’ve been in the stands for about 25 seasons, and I have to say, this current generation of idiots who showed up over the last few years is unprecedented for any fan movement. It's not just that they aren't capable of anything beyond traveling from point A to point B; they act like toddlers who cry the second their mom lets go of their hand. They get lost, they don't know what to do, they sulk, and then they boycott the cheering... as if anyone is actually watching. One person might be the primary culprit here, but that implies the entire concept was flawed from the start. Honestly, thank God this all came to light now rather than five years ago when things should have changed.
It’s almost like hiring 3,000 little sardines to occupy the North Stand—everything seems fine on paper, everyone is happy, and the atmosphere is supposedly great. This could have easily dragged on for another five or ten years. I'm done.
Read what CUCN wrote a few more times.

I suppose I agree that there’s a certain subset of people in the stands who, if they weren't micromanaged, wouldn't even figure out how to secure a ride to the stadium in a nearby suburb. But those are just side effects of solid organization. On the flip side, there have been plenty of good outcomes from that setup... for instance, regardless of how much you mock those 3,000 "sardines" singing along... back in the day, I was more bothered by letters from the old guard than by actual fights, not to mention the away games where we had zero photos, just a thousand banners from every tiny town, and us being basically exiled from our own city while a couple of guys were only there because they had nothing better to do.

I think we should all understand that things can, and absolutely must, get better.

rustyangler122 said:You're right—it all boils down to interpersonal dynamics. Age or specific eras don't really change the fundamental truth of it. Still, I suppose you have to draw some kind of parallel here. More people inevitably means more personalities, more egos fighting for the spotlight, more voices, more "complexes," and more layers of responsibility. There are these new, unwritten rules at play now; you’ve got one group cheering, another setting fires, a third just waiting around, a fourth wandering aimlessly, and a fifth that couldn't care less. Trying to weave all of that into one cohesive whole? That's where the real problem lies.🤷

That’s really the core of the issue right there: five Americans and six different opinions. I suppose that's just how it goes. These days, it’s hard enough to get five people to agree on anything, let alone fifty thousand.

I find myself agreeing with what Štabuljon was saying. Honestly, what is the point of these endless executive committee meetings? At the top level, you need a powerhouse team—a core group that actually makes the big calls. You don't have to like their decisions, obviously, but you have to follow them. If you can't handle being part of a hierarchy, maybe you should just go take a seat at one of those public town halls instead.

Jonathan Lewis3 said:great chanting regularly????? what games have you people actually attended??
so the team is sitting at a 0-0 draw against a side from Miami, people are singing some cheesy pop song in the 80th minute, and then after a few drum beats, the leader starts joking around with the guys near him—is that normal?? the only issue is that Lekić only seems to have authority over the casual fans and the masses. The Red Army has turned into a neighborhood block party; we aren't a group anymore. And now everything has to be built from scratch again. I’m not part of the core or the leadership, but I give them my support; anyone with half a brain should do the same. The team plays in a suburb, and there’s no Red Army presence because Lekić hasn't arrived yet, even though Obišen is right there with the main crew. Then, as soon as he shows up, the spontaneous "Stipe, Stipe" chanting starts. I don't think I've ever seen this much focus on a single individual within the Red Army. It's sad, and frankly, it's embarrassing. Credit where credit is due on certain things, but he can't just rely on being the guy standing by the goalpost forever.

By the way, I seem to remember people talking trash about Lekić on the fan forums back when he first took over leading the chants... people were questioning why there wasn't some blonde kid by the goalpost...

1. From very good to excellent... for about 4 or 5 years now.
2. ...just look at the discipline during the choreographies by those "casuals" you're talking about... is that not good either??? and who else is supposed to have authority... the main crew... listen to me...
3. We aren't a group... is that what those kids filled your head with? We aren't a group... damn it, we have choreographies, we have flares, we travel for away games, we have actual chanting... what are we missing to be considered a group?? Street presence? Even that has leveled up under his leadership... I haven't seen anyone defending the idea of invading someone else's city to start a brawl. You say we're starting from scratch, but really? With two thousand people in the stands, a thousand traveling, ten new drum patterns, flags, and banners... it's like it's 2001 all over again.

4. I don't really care who leads the chants, as long as they're from the active crew. I'll cast my vote... obviously, if they don't do a good job or if the crew doesn't accept them (even if you want to call them "casuals" or whatever), then fine... someone new will come along.

Honestly, half of them refuse to chant just out of spite, and then they hop on the forum to complain that the atmosphere is bad.

rustyangler122 said:...life just brings its own share of things, both the beautiful stuff and the rough patches. People pass away, people are born; some grow past it, others are just getting started. Some handle it one way, some another, and I guess it’s all just NATURAL, nothing out of the ordinary... the real question is how an individual processes it—how someone cries buckets of tears, or breaks a sweat, or burns through their nerves, or whatever else... making SACRIFICES right now is arguably harder, regardless of how much I participate in supporting the Black Knights as a group...
...and please, don't lecture me about the 80s. I suppose I know enough to feel the weight of those days, along with the weight of others too... personally, I think being a fan is incomparably tougher now than it was back then. There is just so much more PRESSURE coming from every possible angle... back in the day, you had a tight-knit circle of maybe a hundred people, mostly from Miami, (I'm certainly not dismissing the regional chapters from back then, heaven forbid), but the atmosphere felt "healthier" (though perhaps not in the most literal sense🙂). Nowadays, time flies, and people mostly know each other through phones, online forums, or second-hand info. Basically, mass appeal has brought a whole new set of headaches. Everyone has, quite simply, become a part of the Black Knights overnight, and I suspect quality got lost somewhere in those numbers. Here is a nice little memory, which to me feels like the start of something new...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zgcno49ewiw

That’s all well and good, but I have one question: in what specific way did quality drop just because the numbers went up? Is it the choreographies? The chanting? Away games? The energy at away matches, or on the streets, or during the flares? When exactly did the Black Knights have that quality that was supposedly so much better than today... was it in the 80s? Maybe you just don't remember quite like that...

briskwolf39 said:View on imgur
We have zero respect for those unknown guys; we aren't even on the same page when it comes to faith. You people will never get it because you’re always folding under pressure whenever things get real.

😲😲😂, as for us, we'll just stick with the Turks.😠

Larry Campbell33 said:When the coaching staff swapped out and the new management took over, I wasn't exactly on board.
But in the brief time they've been at the helm, I have to admit I'm liking them more; they're actually putting in the work.
They're organizing banners, getting people organized, keeping up with the pyrotechnics, and finally, someone is actually leading the chants using three poles and three megaphones, which I think is a great move. Honestly, these guys truly live and breathe the Kansas City Chiefs and the NFL Ultras.

There are a few hundred fans who see what's happening, understand the vision, listen to the new leadership, and don't cause too much trouble. Unfortunately, though, there are thousands of people who don't understand a damn thing. They just stir the pot because they want to lead the banner displays, they make unauthorized signs without getting permission from local police, and things like that. Something needs to be done about them—I'm not entirely sure what, but something has to happen because this can't go on forever.

This kind of energy needs to be pushed at the stadium, especially by placing one person over in the northwest section.

Dennis Davis97 said:About 70 percent of people in any supporter group have the mentality of a donkey😉

So, 70% of the crowd are basically donkeys😁. I mean, cheering itself isn't the problem... the issue is the people. They can't stop opening their mouths, and honestly, the Ultras leaders are just as much to blame because they can't seem to actually get these people to cheer properly.

placidheron16 said:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G77a7_cq8jU check out those NFL Ultras, guys..

I think the letters are great. Maybe they’re a bit long... but still great. If we try to play the role of some big-shot celebrity now, I guess the turnout might go from 0.44% to maybe 1.00%. It'll be popular, obviously. Just speaking from experience here—if people get a break from all the constant yelling, things might actually descend into total chaos.

electricridge7 said:Is it really a bad thing if there's a huge crowd of Black Knights who aren't from Miami or the surrounding area? Aside from that, I pretty much agree with everything you wrote.

Not at all. If anything, our regional chapters are our greatest strength... though I suppose San wants to emphasize how much fewer people from Miami used to show up back in the day...

Honestly, what are you guys even talking about? I mean, have you actually looked at the Raiders Nation lately? We’ve never been better. The flares are lit, we chant for the full ninety minutes, and the choreographies are flawless... plus, we travel in massive numbers, and most of them come straight from the San Francisco area.
I’m asking anyone here—what would you change? What would we need to look like for you all to finally be satisfied? The Raiders Nation is a movement; it’s a huge collective, so naturally, there’s going to be all sorts of characters in the mix. If you want order, that’s what sub-groups or specific crews are for. And there are banners that matter and banners that don't (thank God those other ones aren't around anymore).

What are you expecting? You think thousands of people are all going to agree on everything? That’s fine for a group of five friends where everyone just talks trash about each other, but in a crowd of thousands... it doesn't work that way. As long as we’re united on the big stuff and pull together when it counts, that’s enough.

This guy says being a Split fan is basically being part of the Raiders Nation... which is great, really. It just needs some guidance and direction. People sitting in the stands will eventually find their own way. Some might want to be hooligans, some want to be ultras, others whatever else.

Come on, show a little support.

And I have nothing but respect for what the unknown coach did for our supporters. He took a group that used to just sit through games—even the important ones—and wouldn't even bother singing during away matches, and turned them into a crew that shows up loud and proud for 90 minutes straight. He basically made them "shameful" in the best way possible during that home match at the stadium.

Just remember... that game against the local rivals ten years ago was absolute perfection.